Sonia Hussain [00:00:00]:
I think that's what you have to go back to is about either educating, entertaining or inspiring people. And you should be like leaning into pop culture just seeing, okay, what is resonating, what's not. And you don't have to follow all the trends all the time. That is totally fine. Just do what's right right for your brand.
Paul Archer [00:00:26]:
Have you ever wondered why some brands grow exponentially, building legions of passionate fans that live and die by their logos and some, well, don't? I do, all the time. And that's probably because I'm a massive brand nerd. But I believe there's a secret sauce at the core of every remarkable brand. A formula that sparks the growth of passionate communities, of superfans, building a business and a reputation that will last for years to come.
In this podcast, we tap into the greatest marketing minds in the world as they share the exact tactics and strategies used to build the world's greatest brands. Dropping actionable insights every brand builder can apply.
My name is Paul Archer and I'm a specialist in Brand Advocacy and word-of-mouth. Having consulted for hundreds of brands on a topic co hosting with me is the wonderful Verity Hurd, expert on the bleeding edge of social media.
It's time to learn and build Brand Advocacy.
Verity Hurd [00:01:22]:
Hello and welcome to building brand advocacy. Today I'm joined by the lovely Sonia Hussain. Sonia, welcome to the podcast today.
Sonia Hussain [00:01:29]:
Thank you so much for having me, Verity.
Verity Hurd [00:01:31]:
You're welcome. Do you want to just do a quick intro, let our audience know who you are and what you're doing right now?
Sonia Hussain [00:01:38]:
Yes. So I joined the brand team at Lounge just over a year ago. It's been a very exciting and busy year as I'm sure everyone can imagine. Working in brand, it keeps you on your toes. So from when I started I've kind of supported the brand in terms of getting into retail. I've reestablished their pr strategy working in collaboration with the SEO team, which has been really fun. So worked on lots and lots of campaigns from product launches all the way to our feel your breasts campaign last year which was really amazing and produced lots and lots of photo shoots too. So no day is the same.
Verity Hurd [00:02:15]:
I love that and I completely emphasize with the whole brand marketing side of things on that. Let's go straight into it. So I want to talk about how to build a great brand in 2024. And obviously, like today's market is highly saturated. How do you go about sort of like identifying and defining a brand's identity to just really ensure that it really resonates with the consumer? These days.
Sonia Hussain [00:02:42]:
Yeah, I think that's such a great question. Like you said, the market is so busy and there's so many brands out there. I think what I like to do is I like to start with establishing, with whether it's your founder, your shareholders, whoever it might be, understand if you've got a brand or a business. And I think that's where you really need to start. Because what I find is a lot of people think they've got a brand, but actually what they've got is a business, which is just that straight transaction. They just want to hit that bottom line, get that revenue. But actually, a brand is so much more than that. It is about building that emotional connection.
I think when I was at Bravissimo, that's something I really understood. I saw how they did purpose driven marketing, because once you went into their stores, you got that magic of the fitting room. The store teams were amazing. And once you stepped out, you were like, oh, yeah, I want to go back there again. And because you built that emotional connection and you feel something, I think that's what a brand DNA should be. So I always try and start with that, understand, like the lay of the land, and then go from there in terms of building, like three key pillars, and that would be your purpose, your positioning and your personality. So starting with your purpose, it's all about the why. So why does your brand exist? And it shouldn't exist to make money, which I know we do need that.
Cause we need to all make money, but it should exist for someone else, and that is your customer. So what is it that you are bringing into their lives that makes it special for them?
Verity Hurd [00:04:13]:
Just before you go on from that, I think that whole purpose thing is so important. And we're having more and more of those conversations now with brands. Something that we talk a lot about at building brand advocacy is that, you know, like, the top 1% of the brands out there are built not just for driving sales. Like, if you think about the Lululemons and the Patagonias and, you know, I mean, they're just the iconic ones. Obviously, today's brands, you've got like the likes of Refy and. But they're the ones that, you know, they're not just thinking about the bottom line and, you know, they're the ones that are actually constantly going back to that whole purpose piece and why they're doing it. And they're the ones that are really standing out now. So I think that's really key.
Sonia Hussain [00:04:55]:
And I think on the purpose too, it should be not just right now. It should be okay. Where do you want your brand to get to in a year, five years time? Because if you always have that in mind, then you know you're going to be making the right decisions as well and it can really, truly guide you and not just think like, oh, I'm going to run that paid social ad because I know I'm going to get 20k off the back of it. It should be okay. How are you making a difference?
Verity Hurd [00:05:17]:
Yeah, I think that's probably, like, we'll probably talk about sort of like more about the brand side, but, yeah, I think it's, I don't know, I suppose, like, I want to say back in the day, but then it makes me sound really old, but I suppose that's the difference between brand and performance. Right. You know, and we've kind of, from a marketing perspective, I think we've always kind of been, I don't know what the word is, but kind of like just thinking about that quick sale, thinking about how we're going to hit this week's sales, how are we going to hit this month's sales. And actually, there's a much longer term piece there. And they're two very different sides from a performance and the brand, as everyone probably listening knows. But I think that's the magic thing, isn't it, there, that you've got to understand that this is a long term piece.
Sonia Hussain [00:06:02]:
Yeah, completely. And I think that's also where your positioning then comes into, because like you said, there are so many brands out there now, someone could set up a brand in the next five minutes on Instagram and they've got one and they've got like a thousand followers. But having your positioning is what makes you unique and what makes you stand out. And then it can help you not just, okay, look at, say what Rafire are doing and be like, okay, well, I'm going to do what they're doing now. But actually, if you stick to that position and that's what makes you a really strong brand.
Verity Hurd [00:06:30]:
Yeah, I think as well. Again, I was having this conversation recently about, I think social media, like you said, is such a great tool, like, for any brand now, like where it can take you, like, we didn't have that sort of, like even five years ago probably. But I think because social media is changing so fast, just the digital space in general, general, that I think because of the algorithms, the updates, the trends, brands are becoming a bit like a sea of the same thing. And now, I think in 2024 and even next year, they've got to start ripping it up a little bit, this social media rule book, and just start going back to the purpose, the positioning and really think about what it is that they started for and why and how are they going to really do what they need to do as their brand.
Sonia Hussain [00:07:19]:
Yeah. And I think that's also where that personality piece could come in, too, because where brands maybe are a little bit more afraid to stand out, they do just want to follow the trend. But actually, if you stick by your visual identity and your personality, you can then translate that across any channel and you'll stand out because you're doing something different. And that's what people want, essentially.
Verity Hurd [00:07:43]:
Yeah. Look at Duolingo.
Sonia Hussain [00:07:44]:
Yeah, exactly. Just. Just get a mascot. Look at Percy Pig as well.
Verity Hurd [00:07:48]:
That works. I definitely want a masterclass from Duolingo.
Sonia Hussain [00:07:52]:
Yeah, I know.
Verity Hurd [00:07:56]:
Okay, so in terms of, like, going back to that trend piece, like, I know I've just said, like, every brand is jumping on trends and there are certain trends that I do think brands should jump on. But in terms of, like, consumer trends, what are you seeing that is going to be really critical for brands at the moment?
Sonia Hussain [00:08:13]:
I think something that I'm seeing a lot is that obviously people connect to people and that has always been the case. Vis was built on word of mouth and you're seeing brands like Tala, lots, Collective, Oddmuse, all of those brands are doing really well because they've got strong people behind them and personal brands. But then I think the two main trends I'm seeing are community and experiential. So I'm sure lots of people have seen this week. Ashton and Meu have opened up their amazing store home, which I'm actually going to go pop by later because I want to see what it's all about.
And I think what they've done there is they've really shown how retailtainment is going to be the new trend for what those stores look like. Because if I think when I go into my local town centre, there's no incentive for me to want to go. But where you've got a brands like Astromeu and Gymshark, even Glossier, they're creating the experience in their stores.
And it's not just about that shopping transaction that you go in. You can actually go in, sit in a cafe, like, mingle with your friends and literally spend the day there if you really, really wanted to. And that's then building more of that connection, which I think is so special.
Verity Hurd [00:09:25]:
Yeah. Have you got any examples of any kind of like that kind of experience that you've been involved in.
Sonia Hussain [00:09:34]:
Yeah, I think Jo, our head of creative, she's been really passionate about leading community events and that's something that we've tapped into recently after, over the last few months. So the first one we did was we partnered with girls who walk, who is just an amazing community in Manchester where we do have a really large store presence. And simply all we did was like, partnered with them. We managed to get a massive group of girls together. I think there was literally about 100 of them went on this beautiful walk and then we just hosted a little brunch after with them.
And I think obviously, like Astrid & Miyu, you, that would have cost a lot for them to invest in that store piece and say also Gymshark as well. And I understand not all retail brands are going to have that same privilege, but by doing little bits of activity like that, I think you can really help build that loyalty and connect with customers on a deeper level because you can say to them, oh, like, we're launching this product, like, next week. Like, what do you, what do you think about it? And just get that two way feedback go in.
Verity Hurd [00:10:30]:
Yeah, definitely. That two way dialogue is so, so important these days. Again, conversations recently is like, you need to have that because you need to understand how you can innovate as a brand. And there's brands out there that are constantly doing it every single day. And they actually go to their customers and sort of say, like, do you want it in this color and that color? And it's so simple, but it works because it makes them feel like, well, they are part of the journey and they are part of like, sort of bringing them into the whole brand piece.
Sonia Hussain [00:11:00]:
Yeah, definitely. I think that's something we did at Bravissimo really well, actually is every single person in our head office team, in bra hq, as we like to call it, was bra fit trained. And we would, every quarter, all of us would go out and spend a day in our stores, like up and down the country and just be the ones doing bra fittings or putting stock out on the rails and just understanding. Okay, yeah. What are our customers liking? What are they not liking? How's this season translated? And then we'd go back to the office, we'd have such a buzz and loads of ideas because you're close to your customer and I think that just really helps guide every decision you make.
Verity Hurd [00:11:37]:
Yeah, I mean, on that, do you kind of feel that influencer trips are out, community events are in, which is, you know, I've sort of seen that flying around LinkedIn recently. Do you agree that or do you think that they've both got a place out there?
Sonia Hussain [00:11:53]:
Yeah, I think it is a tricky one because I think the other main trend is that community piece as well as experiential. And refei obviously did their recent trip to Mallorca for the launch of their summer skincare collection. I think it could have been so easy for them to take a group of influencers or press with like loads of high reach, but the fact that they did do that with their local community, they put it in their broadcast channel, which I thought was really special, gutted. I didn't get picked to go, but it's fine.
And I think the fact that they were then just like nurturing that relationship with people is really strong. And I do think that is going to be the way things start to go. Because it's authentic, isn't it, that I think now where you do see so many ads, I know that I watch people on YouTube and I'm like, oh, you have just done that ad just to get paid. And I'm skipping past it because I'm like, oh, no, I don't want to watch that.
Whereas that trip really showed that they cared about their community, they wanted their feedback and they just simply wanted to have a good time with them and to give back, which is going to build loyalty.
Verity Hurd [00:12:58]:
Yeah, absolutely. And I suppose on that note, then, we've kind of touched on it already. Performance marketing always gets the spotlight and it's hard because obviously they have the numbers, they have the data, but data can only take you so far. I genuinely believe that. And, you know, it's two different skill sets, as I've mentioned. But why do you think brand marketing is so important in 2024 and beyond?
Sonia Hussain [00:13:25]:
I think I'm a massive fan and advocate for brand and performance to be working together. I think that's when they do work so well, is when they're under the same leadership. I know it can't be possible in every business, but that is where I do see the true value in it. I think brand marketing is more important because performance marketing, it can be copied. Your competitors can literally just bid on your exact same search terms, pop their spend up and they're then going to knock you out and then you're going to be frantically bidding back and you can do the same ad as each other, whereas your brand, that's what makes you different and that's what's going to stand out. So if you think of like, your massive brands, like your nike, your apple, your lego. They've got to where they are because of that's what they've stuck by and that's what they've just constantly built in people's minds is they've gone back to that purpose and they've just run activity, big or small, to get to where they needed to be. I think that's what's truly most important.
Verity Hurd [00:14:24]:
Yeah. Have you got any examples of where performance and a brand have worked well together? Or if not, how can they. How does that work?
Sonia Hussain [00:14:32]:
Yeah, I think Bloom & Wild actually do it really well. So obviously their mission is care wildly. And I think they've got a really nice balance of on social, they like tell those customer stories with influencers and then on the other side of it, they do have that real thoughtful marketing piece where they use CRM to kind of remind people of key dates.
They've got their loyalty scheme, they've got subscription, and I think that's where they've got a good balance and they're not pushing it too hard. And also how they listen to their customers when they change that thoughtful marketing, like the opt in and opt out scheme, they listened to the feedback, they got off that and then switched it up.
Verity Hurd [00:15:10]:
Are you part of good pair days? No, because they're also awesome when it comes to.
Sonia Hussain [00:15:15]:
Oh, I'll have to check them out.
Verity Hurd [00:15:18]:
It's so good. Okay. Organic social, where I started. Yeah, I love that. Me too. Me too. Obviously we've mentioned it is a saturated place. There's an element where brands need to rip up the rulebook and just kind of go out there.
How do brands actually keep relevant and how do they keep their content fresh and engaging? Because even brands that feel like they're doing it every day, I know that they're still struggling, they're still thinking, how do I, how do we keep going with this?
Sonia Hussain [00:15:51]:
I think I do feel for all of the social media managers out there because I know how hard it is. You want to hit those engagement benchmarks and you're constantly having to think of new ideas and all of that, and it takes a lot of time. One thing I think is really good to do is actually look outside of your category and understand, okay, what are the brands doing on social that's working really well? It's a very rogue one.
But AO the like, service companies that do like washing machines and stuff, but they have actually got really good social channels. And not that that's where I spend my spare time on TikTok. But they do know what they're doing in terms of social. And I think they've made something really functional and boring fun. And that's what social is about.
I think that's what you have to go back to is it is about either education, entertaining or inspiring people. And you should be like leaning into pop culture, just seeing, okay, what is resonating, smart, and you don't have to follow all the trends all the time. That is totally fine. Just do what's right right for your brand.
Verity Hurd [00:16:58]:
I mean, at the moment, like with Lounge, for example, are they sort of like the content strategies across the different platforms? Do they look very different? Or are they sort of like trying to repurpose as much as possible?
Paul Archer [00:17:11]:
Hey, it's me again. This podcast is sponsored by Duel, which is my company, actually. Duel is the leading Brand Advocacy platform used by the top retail consumer brands, including Unilever, Charlotte Tilbury, Elemis Loop, and about 50 more to manage, measure and scale their Advocacy member, affiliate, creator and brand ambassador operations. The platform offers unparalleled scale for complex brands by automating nine out of ten of the standard Advocacy management activities and allowing them to focus on arming their Advocates with the right tools to tell the brand story and drive Social Commerce, they can grow faster for less.
We only work with 15% or so of the brands we speak to, but we try and add value in many other ways, this podcast being one of them. So if you are a brand that's interested in this, maybe a large consumer retail brand, ideally you're doing $20-$30 million as a minimum, and you're pretty advanced on social and you need to know what the next stage is, then please get in touch. Email me at paul@duel.tech, that is Paul @ D, U, E, L Dot T, E, C, H or Google Duel dot Tech.
Sonia Hussain [00:18:19]:
Yeah, our social team, they are really good. And we do because obviously we've got a massive following on Instagram with 3.6 million followers, and then on TikTok, 1 million as well. So we do treat them differently. And I think that is what you should do because you should understand those platforms and lean into, okay, what do those platforms want from you? So on Instagram, we probably are leaning more into that more polished side of things. Very aspirational, where you can get inspiration for all of your outfits.
And on TikTok, that is where we do have a bit more fun. Show our personality. You'll see all of the office teams, our store teams play a big part in content as well, which is really nice to be able to bring that into the content stream and also broadcast channels.
The team have set that up recently too, which is going really well. I think we had over 6000 members in the first 24 hours, which again shows that power of community.
Verity Hurd [00:19:11]:
Yeah, I'd love to touch on the sort of like the employee piece. And I know that TikTok has been a platform that's really kind of allowed brands to do that. But again, you sort of like building brand advocacy.
We know that employees have such a special place when it comes to advocacy. And again, we'd like store you store teams as well. They're the ones that are on the ground every day. They're talking to customers and they're probably like one of your true first advocates for the brand. Did you find that a struggle to kind of bring them in on sort of like representing the brand on socials or did it just kind of like happen quite naturally?
Sonia Hussain [00:19:47]:
No, I think at Lounge it really happened naturally. Like all of the girls in the store teams, they're so engaged. They love the brands and they want to be a part of it and they send ideas to the team. They'll like create their own. They're always doing their own little like team nights as well. They do the cutest things and we're always all very jealous. And then also when I was at Bravis Modu is how we launched our TikTok channel was with our store teams. Like they were the people behind the content and we would simply just have a really straight two way dialogue with each other.
We'd be able to send them briefs of trends that would pop up. They would then get rewarded for taking part in that content and they just loved it because it's different to do in their day and they knew what was working as well in their stores. So they could then also put that on the platform?
Verity Hurd [00:20:36]:
Yeah. Would you have any advice for any brands out there that were struggling to kind of get their store teams or know the retail teams involved in socials? Like, what would your advice be to kind of get them brought into it?
Sonia Hussain [00:20:47]:
I think I would probably say, like, listen to them. Like, put yourself in their shoes. Like what you're asking them, like, you've got to remember you're asking them to do something on top of that day to day. So what is going to inspire and motivate them to want to be able to do it and let them have some fun and freedom because they know the brand just as well as you do. So they can have that creativity as well.
Verity Hurd [00:21:11]:
Yeah. Okay, nice. And then from another creator aspect, are you working with influencers across like the megas, the micros, the nanos. And if so, like is that. I'm guessing it's probably across the whole funnel. And what kind of metrics are you working against for each?
Sonia Hussain [00:21:26]:
Yeah, our influencer team, they do work across a variety of territories and all levels of influencers, I'd say the majority of the time we are measured mostly on revenue in terms of partners posting on their channel. But we've also leaned into a lot of UGC as well lately, especially for some of our organic social channels, paid social. We've seen it perform really well for us. And that is where we are working with some of those smaller creators that simply just love creating content and we'll be able to brief them. Specific ideas that then we can then utilize.
And I think having that full for null approach from your high reach and awareness all the way down to those people that maybe do have smaller followings, but, you know, we're going to create the most beautiful, authentic content. That's probably the best strategy to have.
Verity Hurd [00:22:11]:
Yeah. And are you using sort of like UGC creators that they're not necessarily posting it on their accounts? Or is it a bit of both where.
Sonia Hussain [00:22:20]:
Yeah, it is pretty much a bit of like an even split. I'd say the majority of time it's for us to post on our channels, but also we'd more than welcome them to post on theirs as well.
Verity Hurd [00:22:31]:
Yeah. Because even like the smallest of followings, because even with someone with 100, they're probably the most engaged 100 people that you'll ever find.
Sonia Hussain [00:22:40]:
Yeah, completely. I think even people in, I'm in quite a few Facebook groups and the broadcast channels, you see how those small, tight knit communities convert so well, and you wouldn't think of it like that, but they actually do.
Verity Hurd [00:22:56]:
Yeah. Okay, so I want to dive into sort of like customer centric campaigns. How, how do you guys ensure that your campaigns are deeply rooted in your customer insights?
Sonia Hussain [00:23:08]:
Yeah, I'd say. I think knowing your customer is what's key to your brand success. Because once you know your customer inside out, you're just easily able to make a decision on what's right or what's not quite right. And you don't have to rely so much then on your gut instinct, while that's still important. Yeah, I think a campaign that we worked on which went really well was our barely there bra. And that was a collection. It was a very simple bra that we were launching and we thought, oh, yeah, we can just drop this into the market. But actually what we did is we looked at how it would land.
And we found Gen Z aren't really wearing bras anymore, which, you know, isn't great when you're an underwear, underwear brand and you're about to start with a bra. So. But the fact it was barely there is we lent into that concept and our Winterfell creative, Dre, he then came up with the concept of better than braless. And what we did to build on that is we selected a core group of our top customers. We sent an email out to them. They were able to get the bra before anyone else in a special pr package box. But the catch was they couldn't see the bra before they bought it. So on the product page, it was completely blurred out, like it was barely there, leaning into the concept of the product.
So we sent it out to them. Afterwards, we sent out a survey, too, and we got kind of really powerful stats where we could say, like, old people felt the bra was comfortable, it was weightless. I think it was eight out of ten people scored it three or higher in terms of they are now converted into wearing bras again. So we were then able to craft more of a story around it, which led to a slanted night press coverage. In the independent Allen glamour, we saw some of our best paid social benchmarks increases. I think we had over like 200 influencers go, go live with content. And one of the videos had like 3.8 million views. And it was one of our fastest selling everyday bras, which a style like that is a real game changer for us.
And that's just because we understood, okay, what is going on in the market right now, how will people resonate with this product? And we were able to use that to shape a narrative.
Verity Hurd [00:25:19]:
How do you, how do you get those insights in terms of.
Sonia Hussain [00:25:23]:
I wouldn't say it's definitely concrete. I think I am more of a brand person that is quite strategic and data driven. But you do have to understand that it's not always going to be black and white. So we would look at various reports online. I think something simple as just doing a poll on your Instagram story is actually so powerful as well. That is basic things like that that you can do to just get a bit closer to your customers.
Verity Hurd [00:25:49]:
Yeah, well, that's an interesting fact about Gen Z is not wearing bras. Yeah, there you go. I had another thing off that as well. You said about you worked with, with your most. Did you say most engaged?
Sonia Hussain [00:26:01]:
Yeah, they were top customers.
Verity Hurd [00:26:04]:
Was that based on engagement or revenue? Like, how did you kind of like.
Sonia Hussain [00:26:08]:
Cherry pick those customers, our CRM team, they're really strong at pooling those customers together. So they worked with the ones that either open our emails the most or they are the ones that have purchased the most from us. Because you do want to reward those customer groups, they should get those extra special perks because they're giving to you, so you should give back to them, essentially.
Verity Hurd [00:26:29]:
Yeah. I do also agree on the whole, you know, it's not necessarily about the ones that do spend the most all the time, you know, because you probably have, like, you know, fans out there that can't afford to buy from you all the time. But they are the ones that are open in the emails, the ones that are clicking on, you know, links and sort of like, liking every post or sending you DM's and things like that. So.
Sonia Hussain [00:26:50]:
Yeah, definitely.
Verity Hurd [00:26:51]:
I was just intrigued by that. Yeah.
Sonia Hussain [00:26:52]:
I think with underwear as well is you don't refresh it as often as you might go out and buy a new top two. So that cycle is quite a longer customer journey. So taking that into consideration of those engagement bits is really key.
Verity Hurd [00:27:06]:
Yeah. Okay, I'm going to flip the narrative a little bit here. So I wanted to talk about there's a lot of female founded brands at the moment and more than that ever has been before. And I think it's great. Obviously, I still think there's a long way to go when it comes to female founded brands, I suppose even just in terms of how they're invested. And I think the stats recently changed. But wasn't it like 1%?
Sonia Hussain [00:27:33]:
Yeah, I think it is. Only 1% of female founded brands or female owned brands get investment backed to help grow them?
Verity Hurd [00:27:43]:
There's a few different things here. Why do you think there's so many now more than ever, even though we're not getting the investment that they deserve?
Sonia Hussain [00:27:51]:
I know. I think it is a tricky one because I think Grace Beverly is someone that's really good at talking about this. Obviously, she owns Tala and so many different ventures, but I think the fact that women feel like they can now start these brands is really amazing. I think we're younger and if we have children one day and have daughters, they can look up to women and be like, oh, yeah, you started that. Not the guy that started Apple or Microsoft. That is a really cool thing.
Verity Hurd [00:28:21]:
It's attainable.
Sonia Hussain [00:28:21]:
Yeah. To have. And I think that is the way things should go. I think. I don't know whether there is maybe still some stigmatism around women for it and maybe we're not the best with money. But I think I'm pretty good, to be honest. But I think that's probably why. But I think there's a long way to go and more of an education piece around it, too.
And there's so many things that. That Jule do for women to be able to connect over business breakfasts and things like that. I think that will really help women. And over time, it kind of has been a bit taboo. You don't tell people what's going on, but actually, if we all just shared and connected, brands would probably go further.
Verity Hurd [00:29:06]:
Yeah, I mean, that's our. We're really passionate about that, as, you know, sort of like bringing people together. And as you say, there shouldn't really be. And obviously you'll have certain things that you want to keep quiet because you want the excitement of a launch or a campaign or product or something. Yeah, we're all in this together and, you know, this is what the whole podcast is about.
Like, we can share all the tactics and the strategies and so we can go back and actually start to implement them straight on the ground. What do you think are the unique challenges when it comes to female founded brands? Like, what do they face and how do you think they can turn them into opportunities?
Sonia Hussain [00:29:39]:
I think it is a really good question. I saw the founder of odd muse the other day. She thinks she had a comment from a guy saying that revenue is the only thing that matters, and she kind of responded to that. And I think that is probably one of the things that they face most, is they seem to get a lot more backlash and opinion. You probably see it on people's LinkedIn posts and stuff like that. But actually they can turn that into an opportunity because I find women are a lot more transparent with it and they're open to feedback and answering questions. I think another rogue brand is P. Louise on TikTok.
Yeah, I'm. For some reason I watched their documentary, they vlog every week.
Verity Hurd [00:30:22]:
I didn't know they had one. Yeah.
Sonia Hussain [00:30:24]:
And I'm hooked by it. I'm definitely not their target market, their brightly colored makeup, but I think where they show the hard side of business, that just makes it authentic and then also makes women like you and me want to connect. And that is then the opportunity for them.
Verity Hurd [00:30:40]:
Yeah. Interesting. In terms of strategies that you're using to carve out a niche, even just for Lounge, as a brand, to empower and support women. How are you guys doing that?
Sonia Hussain [00:30:54]:
I think the main way we do it is by putting mal at the forefront of the brand a lot more, we recently did an event for our study shop and she was there on the ground chatting to people of how the brand was formed. She's there for people to look up to as well. And she kind of did the whole brand story essentially of Lounge because we probably don't tell that as much as people think. You've probably seen like, just like the rapid growth that we've had. But it's.
Verity Hurd [00:31:20]:
That's so true, actually.
Sonia Hussain [00:31:21]:
It is about getting the people behind it. And it is more than just that, that revenue that's, that's growing the brand.
Verity Hurd [00:31:28]:
Yeah.
Sonia Hussain [00:31:28]:
It's the people in them.
Verity Hurd [00:31:30]:
I was saying it's so true because I agree. Like, I don't actually know much about the brand story from like the founder perspective because you just, I've just always seen Lounge as like such a powerhouse.
Sonia Hussain [00:31:42]:
Yeah.
Verity Hurd [00:31:42]:
Brands.
Sonia Hussain [00:31:43]:
Yeah. In terms of that quick growth. But even things like, from, like, mal being a mom, she made sure that in our stores you can like, breastfeed in our fitting rooms and, like, that's really inclusive. Obviously, she's the person that's been behind our feel your breast campaign. And I think she's just so good at getting to grips with, okay, what do women want? Because she knows herself. She's like, she is our customer, too.
Verity Hurd [00:32:06]:
Yeah, yeah, I. Okay, I want to ask, how do you build brand advocacy?
Sonia Hussain [00:32:13]:
It is a good question. I'd say it's kind of got three main parts. So the first is like, obviously, like we've touched on is to establish your brand beyond that product or service. Like knowing what your why is and always sticking by that. And then I think another really key part is once you've obviously attracted that customer, you need that product or service to be good and delivered what you want. Because once you've, it's kind of like dating, I think someone told me is that you've attracted them and now you need to show them the goods and that's kind of how it goes.
And obviously you hope that that goes well, but for some brands it doesn't go so well. So I think that's where you need to make sure you've got the quality goods to keep them hooked and interested.
And then that's when that loyalty piece comes in is okay. Like they've purchased from you. Like, what's going to make them want to come back? Like, what can you give to them? And it shouldn't just be push out all the time. It should be a push and pull relationship where you're enticing them with, I don't know, an exclusive sneak peek of your next launch. They've got an invite to your event, or you've simply just given them a birthday discount code, things like that, I think will, over time, build the brand.
And as long as you're always listening to what your customers want and keeping that going, I think is really key because I think that's when brands become stagnant, is kind of when you've got internal perception that you think, oh, yeah, everyone loves now, but actually you need to always constantly be innovating, checking in with your customers. Okay, how is our brand perception looking? How's our awareness levels and always going for more, staying challenged. And that's what will create a really strong brand.
Verity Hurd [00:33:55]:
I think you can come and work for us because I think you just nailed that.
Sonia Hussain [00:33:59]:
I hope so.
Verity Hurd [00:34:01]:
Sonia, this has been great. Where can people find you on the.
Sonia Hussain [00:34:05]:
Classic place that is LinkedIn, you can find me. Sonia Hussein. I'm there.
Verity Hurd [00:34:09]:
Lovely. Thank you so much. That was great.
Sonia Hussain [00:34:11]:
Thank you very much.
Paul Archer [00:34:14]:
That was another episode of Building Brand Advocacy, the world's top brand building podcast. To find out more about Building Brand Advocacy and how this podcast is part of a bigger plan for our brand building cookbook, then make sure to search for Building Brand Advocacy in Apple podcasts, Spotify, Google Podcasts, or anywhere else that podcasts are fine. And make sure that you click subscribe so you don't miss any future episodes. Thanks to dual for sponsoring. To find out more, go to www.dual.tech. That's D U A L dot T E C H and on behalf of the team here at Building Brand Advocacy, thanks for listening.
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