Jo Tutchener Sharp [00:00:00]:
Be authentic, mean it, be real. If you don't actually enjoy meeting people and talk and get someone else in the team who does to do it. Take the time, really listen and care and take the time to build those relationships and meet with the customer, chat to the customer and also see what you can do for them. So it's not just always about giving them a gift with purchase, it's about helping them out. Like do they need a call, do they need a bit more support, do they need a little something sending listen to what's going on in their lives, not just in a salesy way.
Paul Archer [00:00:37]:
Have you ever wondered why some brands grow exponentially, building legions of passionate fans that live and die by their logos and some, well, don't? I do, all the time. And that's probably because I'm a massive brand nerd. But I believe there's a secret sauce at the core of every remarkable brand. A formula that sparks the growth of passionate communities, of superfans, building a business and a reputation that will last for years to come.
In this podcast, we tap into the greatest marketing minds in the world as they share the exact tactics and strategies used to build the world's greatest brands. Dropping actionable insights every brand builder can apply.
My name is Paul Archer and I'm a specialist in Brand Advocacy and word-of-mouth. Having consulted for hundreds of brands on a topic co hosting with me is the wonderful Verity Hurd, expert on the bleeding edge of social media.
It's time to learn and build Brand Advocacy.
Verity Hurd [00:01:34]:
Hello and welcome to Building Brand Advocacy. Today I am joined by the founder of one of my personal favorite brands, Scamp and Dude. They are a fashion brand that is infused with superpowers, which I absolutely love. And they're turning the world of fashion into a force of good. They've amassed thousands, hundreds of thousands of followers across social. But I think the biggest thing for me is they're not just followers, they are die hard fans. And that is only something brands can wish for these days. And you have a true, genuine community.
Welcome. Jo, hello.
Jo Tutchener Sharp [00:02:03]:
Thanks for having me.
Verity Hurd [00:02:04]:
It's a pleasure. Honestly. I'm so excited to chat to you about all things advocacy and community. But I really wanted to start with a moment that changed everything for you and a life altering experience that obviously kind of took you into the world of Scamp and Dude. So I'd just love to find out a little bit more about that story. And obviously the products that you now create are more than just products. You've amassed this community around it. So I'd love To start there.
Jo Tutchener Sharp [00:02:30]:
Okay. So, yeah, my whole career had been in pr, in public relations. And then everything changed when one day I suffered the most terrible headache, really, like someone was stabbing me in the back of my eye. And went to the hospital. And to cut a long story short, I'd suffered a brain hemorrhage and they discovered a lump on my brain. So I didn't know what this lump was at this point, but no one wants to hear they've got a lump on their brain. My kids were only one and three at the time, so the thought of leaving them without a mum was just completely devastating, crushing. And then after meeting with a neurosurgeon, I found out I needed brain surgery to remove the lump.
And again, no one wants brain surgery. It was terrifying hearing they were going to remove a piece of my skull, take away the lump, remove the lump, being careful not to damage any of the tissue around it, and then reattach the skull with metal plates. You're like, sounded so barbaric and kind of what the heck and all, when you've got these tiny little kids relying on you. It was. It was completely terrifying. So I had the surgery and thankfully, thankfully did come out the other side. Like, the thought of not coming, that this could be the end was one of those things that took me to some, obviously, some very dark places. And in the run up to it, one of the big things was, you know, when people say about the pearly gates, it's totally true.
You go to those pearly gates and you look back when you're facing death and look back and think, what have I done with my life? And for me, I did think about things I hadn't done. Like, I'd never, you know, I'd never been to Australia or I've never been skiing. And. But then I thought, actually, it's not. Doesn't matter. That's not important. But the thing that really bothered me was I thought, what is my leg? What will my legacy be if this is the end? What will people remember me by? And I thought, they're going to remember me as a fun PR girl. Like, what good have I done? There's nothing wrong with pr, but what good have I done? How have I helped people? Like, what's.
And I suddenly felt quite empty and kind of helpless that it might be too late to make that change. Because I don't think I realized until that moment that I really wanted to do some good. I wanted to help people that we're on this planet, we should be trying to make Better by being here. And I didn't realize until that moment. And I think that feeling that it might be too late to make a change was pretty awful. So I made myself a pact if I made it through the surgery, I'd do some good. Didn't know what that would be, but just thought, right, I'll make. If I get a chance to redo this and create a legacy that I'm proud of, I'm going to do it.
So did come out of surgery, thank goodness. And Afterwards I spent 10 days in hospital, had this side of my head shaved, 20 staples. And I didn't see my kids that whole 10 days recovering because I looked like Frankenstein. I looked in the mirror, I terrified myself. I couldn't let them see me like that. Be one of those images that would have stayed with them forever. So 10 days is a really long time away from your 1 and 3 year old. And I spent a lot of time thinking, what do I wish had been available to comfort them while we were apart? And I came up with, oh God, I wish I could have given them little snuggly superhero.
And I could have said, this superhero is going to watch over you and keep you safe. And I thought on the back, imagine if it had a little pocket and I could have put my photo and I could have said, and mommy's still with you. I'm still there watching over you. And they could have snuggled it on, thinking I was still there. In the end I thought, I'm going to make these. I'm going to make them and I'm going to donate one to a child who does lose a parent for everyone sold. And this can be my get well goal and my chance to do some good. So that was a really tiny little inkling of scamp and dude when I was in hospital then I came out and I went on an absolute mission.
Like I look back on it and I'm like, oh my goodness. But I was so driven by this purpose, this chance to kind of redo my legacy and, and do some good and help kids who do lose, lose a parent or are separated from loved ones that are in hospital that I thought, right, I'm going to make them. And I had no idea how to make toys and I decided to do a fashion brand to go with it. Clothing brand, super power infused. So all of our prints have little lightning bolts in them. Yeah, the super power button, that's the neon bolt on each gar to press to get superpowers. So it was all about filling people with superpowers. When they need it most.
So that was the really, the very, very, very start. And the mad bit that I look back on now is that I had the brain surgery in the January, registered Scamp and dude in the March, and then launched the brand into Liberty and on our site in the November that same year. So less than a year after my brain surgery, that is insane. I look back and I'm like, how did that happen? Yes. But it's that absolute joy at being given a second chance at life. The fire in my bel, just like, I'm going to do this. And that chance to kind of redo that legacy and do some good was just, I mean, also slightly potty, but.
Verity Hurd [00:07:23]:
Yeah, yeah, like I said, insane.
Jo Tutchener Sharp [00:07:25]:
Yeah, slightly crazy, but yeah, just. And then since then, the women's, we started off more as a kids brand. The women's wear side of things absolutely exploded. And I launched Super Scarves as well, which is so as well as the Sleep Buddies, we've got the super scarfs and for every scarf sold, we donate one to a woman with cancer.
So we have contacts with over 200. Expect 280 hospitals now around the UK where we donate our scarves to. So my dream is that every woman, the day she starts chemotherapy, gets given one of our super power infused scarves to wrap herself up in. So it becomes a bit like a super power infused comfort blanket, like almost like a good luck charm for her that will kind of be with her while she goes through her treatment.
Verity Hurd [00:08:07]:
Yeah.
Jo Tutchener Sharp [00:08:08]:
And so far we've donated over 53,000 scarves to women across the UK. And that's probably the thing I'm the most proud of about the whole of Scamp and dude is that 53,000 women, we've put a smile on their faces on the scariest day of their life. And that's the heart of Scamp and Dude. That's the, that's what we're all. That's the main thing about Scamp and Dude that we're all proud of.
Verity Hurd [00:08:31]:
That's an incredible story. I got goosebumps listening to that. And yeah, honestly, like I said, insane. But yeah, I can't even imagine going through all of that, but then coming out that side and achieving what you've achieved so far. And I can imagine there's only so much more that you want to go with the brand, with that mission. But I mean, obviously your personal journey plays such a big part of the brand.
Do you have to really consider how much you share of that personal journey to obviously build that authenticity without kind of feeling vulnerable or do you just put it out there?
Jo Tutchener Sharp [00:09:04]:
I think the story wise, it's such a part of the brand that I've had to let that go. And, and it's part of the brand, I think when, when I first launched and I did find it quite difficult talking about my story, so it was still so raw as well and new. And two, on two different occasions when I was speaking, doing public speaking and having to talk about my. The story in front of lots of people, I did break down and cry. So I've always had that little fear in the back of my mind when I'm. I'm. When if I'm talking on stage to lots of people, it's like, oh my God, don't cry, don't cry, don't cry. Because you do kind of relive it as you're talking about it.
And at the beginning that was really hard. But I. It's really helped people understand who we are and what we're all about. And it's so intrinsic to the whole brand that it's a story I have to tell. And I'm braver now, so I'm not quite. It's been eight years, so I'm braver at not crying when I say it. Although sometimes I still do get a lump in my throat. When you take yourself back there.
Cause it was a really. It was an awful time.
Verity Hurd [00:10:03]:
But it's when you mention your boys. You got two boys, right?
Jo Tutchener Sharp [00:10:05]:
Yeah.
Verity Hurd [00:10:06]:
It's when you mention your boys that it's like, oh, God, yeah, I'm a mum of two boys. And I'm like…
Jo Tutchener Sharp [00:10:10]:
But I think anyone who even. Well, definitely everyone who's got. But even people who don't have children can imagine what that feeling is like. Well, you've got these little children that you just. You're responsible for them. You want to be there for them. And that thought is just. Yeah.
Terrifying.
Verity Hurd [00:10:25]:
Yeah. But what a mission and a vision that you've had through this time. So a lot of brands would love to have such a. They struggle to tell a compelling story. What would be your advice for brands that are really trying to find and communicate their voice and tell that authentic brand narrative?
Jo Tutchener Sharp [00:10:44]:
I think the most important thing is authenticity and not forcing, not forcing it. I think you can often see through it. If a brand's just making something up to try and it has to be real, it's got to be from the heart. And then it's. I've. I had quite a few people who are starting brands trying to Pull together some kind of story and trying to ask me for advice. And I always try and say it's got. For one, it's got to be in your heart.
Like, the story has to be true and it's got to be something you've been through, so it's in your heart. So it's totally, totally authentic. Authentic, because also, starting your own business, you're never going to work harder than when you've started your own business. So you've got to love it. You've got to literally live and breathe it and you've got. It's got to. Got to be in your heart for you to be able to work that hard, because you've got to have something that keeps you going. So it's got.
Authenticity is the biggest. It's got to be authentic. Like the huge brands, when they go, we've got to. We've got to do some purpose. You've got to add purpose into the brand. Quick, what should we do? And it's almost like a tick box. And then they're like, let's give 50p from the sale of every one of these to this charity. There you go, done.
And what charity? That one. And it's just like, oh, that's not what it's about. Purpose has got to be real. It's got to be. It's got to be authentic. And if you're going to do it, do it. Don't just give 50p, like, don't just do a token, kind of mean it, and actually really try and help these charities and these people.
Verity Hurd [00:12:05]:
Yeah, 100% agree on the purpose thing. I think that can't just be picked out of nowhere. It has got to mean something. And, you know, we always talk about, you know, like, this top 1% of brands, like, you know, that they stand out because they genuinely come from that place of a purpose. So, yeah, totally relate to that. And just going back to sort of like the charitable efforts, you know, it's not just a gesture. It, like you said, it really does come from the heart and it's everything that you guys do. I suppose I'd love to kind of dig into that a little bit more.
And, like, how do you balance that? Because obviously you still got. There's obviously still some commercial elements to the brand. Like, how do you balance the. Because obviously you've got a great goal in terms of, like, I want this to be where we are at. Like, tell me a little bit more about that.
Jo Tutchener Sharp [00:12:51]:
What we decided to do was to have, rather than giving a certain Amount of money from every product sold. We wanted to have some products that we didn't make any money from.
Verity Hurd [00:13:00]:
Yeah.
Jo Tutchener Sharp [00:13:00]:
The whole profit goes to donating the other product and they're our charity lines. So the Scarves, super scarves, the Sleep Buddies. And then there's other products that we've got that raise money for certain charities. Like we've got our Pocket Sleep Buddies and they raise money for Child Bereavement uk. So five pound from the sale of each one of those goes to that charity. We have various other products that we're always raising money for. Some prefer some of our charities, but then we have a core, Our core line which isn't raising money for the charities.
Verity Hurd [00:13:29]:
Yeah.
Jo Tutchener Sharp [00:13:29]:
And that enables us. Enables us to keep the business and actually run a business and have staff and stores. And so it's. That's the kind of how our commercial model works, where instead of a percentage of everything, it's certain products. We give absolutely everything to the charity and go, well, this. These aren't going to make any money. But that's not what it's about. This is that this is our purpose and this is about helping.
And then we've got the rest of the collection, which is what actually makes us money, so that we can, like, have an office, pay staff and actually have a proper business.
Verity Hurd [00:14:01]:
Yeah, love that. And obviously, you're very much the face of the brand and you started off with Instagram, Right. That was kind of like the start of the social media journey. Start of the brand, how? I'd love to kind of know, like, obviously, how do you find being the face of the brand? Like, do you like. Because now you've probably got a personal brand alongside Scamp and Dude as well. Right. Or maybe you don't think yourself.
Jo Tutchener Sharp [00:14:27]:
I try not to think about. When I get asked to do social, like, paid social things, I always just say no, because I'm like, I'm not that. I'm. I'm here for Scamp and do not for anything else. Like. And I don't. I don't have any kind of ambitions to be famous. So it's not about promoting me, me, it's about, I'll do something if it's for the benefit of the brand.
So if there's a public speaking engagement or if there's a. And it's to help Scamp and do, I'll do it because that's helping our missions and. But if it's just for me, then I'm not. I'm not going to do that. So it's an interesting one, because I think I didn't really put any thought into that before I started Scampdud and it. And then it's definitely something you have to get used to because you do end up. If you are the face of the brand, you end up then putting yourself out there, and obviously you can get recognized by customers, and that's something you never set out. And it's kind of…
It can be quite strange. I've been on desert islands. Yeah. Literally, we went on holiday one year on an island, literally in the middle of nowhere, and I got out to sea and this lady went, you're Jo, aren't you, from Scamp and Dude? And I was like, thinking, what? How? How? Oh, my goodness. And in Japan, we bumped into some people wearing Scamp and Dude who were like, hi. And it's bonkers. It's bonkers. And sometimes it can feel a little overwhelming because you can be out thinking.
But mostly I think that what I'm lucky about is our. We have the most unbelievable customer base. Really, really lovely, lovely women. So therefore, you know, bumping into people and people coming over to talk to you. They're always completely lovely and really nice, and it's nice to have a chat to them.
Verity Hurd [00:16:20]:
Yeah.
Jo Tutchener Sharp [00:16:21]:
And we do. We do loads of events now. We've got quite a few new stores. We're opening another one on Friday. We always hold a big party and invite all of our customers to come and kind of party with us to celebrate the launch. And I do love going around and chatting to all of them and hearing what they're loving, what they want us to be doing. And it's kind of a lovely part of it. But I feel some amazing relationships with women who, through Scamp and Doodoo, people that I'd now call friends who started off as a customer, but customers that you talk to more and more and more.
And. And there's people, like, at these parties. We do. There's people I think I know because they're always posting pictures of themselves on Scamp and Duda's Facebook group. So you. You recognize them. So I walk into the party and I'll be like, hi. And they're like, how do you know? And I'm like, because you're posting pictures of yourself, like, nearly every day on this group.
And it's. I love it. It's adorable.
Verity Hurd [00:17:13]:
I mean, that just kind of shows, like I said in the intro. Like, they are. They are diehard fans of Scamp and Dude. It's almost like the dude is like, Almost like a cult. I'm in the Facebook group and I want to dig into the Facebook group in a bit. But yeah, I mean, it's, it's truly special that you have, you know, so many people in that group. And it's not just like one post a day. No, it's like, it can be like 20 plus a day, if not more.
And honestly, it's like I said, a lot of brands would just wish for that now, especially in the era that we're in, in social commerce and you know, and I don't know, I suppose a lot of brands, it'd be easier with how we're at in social media, but I don't think it is because there's so much noise out there. I mean, you mentioned there about you've built some really great relationships. Have you? Sort of. What have been the best strategies or some of the tactics that you use to create that and to make them feel like they're really valued and heard?
Jo Tutchener Sharp [00:18:08]:
Well, I think a lot of it probably comes from my background working in pr. That's. I love people, I love meeting people, I love getting to know people. So that side of it's come very naturally to me. And again, I think when you're talking about authenticity, nothing's forced with Scamp and Dude, as in me building relationships with our customers isn't forced, isn't fake. It's. I naturally want to get to know them and build a relationship with them. So I think that helps a lot because it is real.
Verity Hurd [00:18:35]:
Yeah.
Jo Tutchener Sharp [00:18:36]:
And when I started out social media, I was still running our social media, the main Scamp and do social media account up until a. A couple of years ago. You know, it was. I only handed it over to the team a couple of years ago and I just, I can't do it anymore.
Verity Hurd [00:18:48]:
And was that difficult?
Jo Tutchener Sharp [00:18:50]:
It was really difficult. And I think I'm still quite annoying about social media because I'd be like, I would have done that a little bit differently. So the delegation thing is really, when you've been doing everything, to start handing things over is really difficult. And someone once said to me, which was actually has really helped. They said when a founder starts a brand and they are doing everything, they know exactly how they want absolutely everything done.
Verity Hurd [00:19:11]:
It's your tone of voice as well.
Jo Tutchener Sharp [00:19:13]:
And it. But it's also like the level that you want it done to you know exactly how it is. And for someone to try and guess what that is or learn from you how that is. Yeah, they never, they possibly will never get it 100% right. But even if they get it 80% right and you're not having to do it, that's good enough. Because you can't do it as you grow. Like now, the size we are now, there's no way I can do all of that. And also it's understanding, like, there's other departments, like social media, something that came quite naturally to me because of my background, but there's other departments.
I say things definitely didn't come naturally to me. And there were people who are way better at me doing it who came in, like the finance side of things or operations. And when other people have come in that hour, we've got my head of buying and design, when she came in, that completely transformed everything. Because at that point when she came in, I was still designing all the collections, I was still doing all the fit. Like, imagine me doing kind of quality control and buying, like approvals when I just be sending it back to the factory going, it's a bit baggy here. I don't know any of the technical terms. And then suddenly she's come in and she's just like. And you're like, oh, my God, how did I.
How did I cope without you? And you get. I think that's when everything gets easier on that point, when you start getting people. But anyway, I'm going off piece. Going back to your original question, I say, I do very much like meeting our customers and chatting to our customers and getting to know them. And I also see the importance in that. So knowing what they want and knowing what they're feeling about the new shapes, the new colors, I'll always put out on our duders group. If we're in the team. If we can't decide between a print or a color, I'll just put it out to them and go, which one do you want? And then they'll tell me.
And you're like, God, that's amazing. It's amazing to have that and just to value their opinion. They're the customer. I mean, I always use my taste as the kind of core customer. So when we're all talking about. I'm like, I don't think I'd wear that. And then we try and push the boundaries a bit and they go, come on, try it on. I'm like, oh, actually, I quite like it.
But actually I use my taste levels as a bit of a guide as to what the customer's going to. Really going to like. But getting them to tell us is really important.
Verity Hurd [00:21:30]:
Yeah, it's. That conversation, isn't it? And it is. So it's just as simple as that. But I suppose you have to build those relationships in some way first to try and get them to kind of want to talk to you in that, in that way. But I think, you know, just a group like that. And I suppose Instagram is also a great place for you guys, isn't it, in terms of getting that information, the data, and that's what's helping you inform, you know, decisions in the business, which is incredible.
Jo Tutchener Sharp [00:21:54]:
And Instagram lives. That's a big about that.
Verity Hurd [00:21:58]:
I was just going to ask.
Jo Tutchener Sharp [00:21:58]:
That's been really important too, because that's another way of maybe, maybe some of the community on Instagram aren't in the scamp and do group, but they really love the Instagram lives and they're always commenting and asking us questions. I think what's also good is that I'm not, I'm not intimidating. So there's some people who run a brand, run brands who people could look up at and go, oh God, they're, they're really amazing. But they're terrifying. Like, I'm not terrifying. I'm very kind of attainable and approachable and which makes it that people aren't intimidated by me, which I think they like as well because they can always reach out to me, chat to me, which I think is really important too.
Paul Archer [00:22:42]:
Hey, it's me again. This podcast is sponsored by Duel, which is my company, actually. Duel is the leading Brand Advocacy platform used by the top retail consumer brands, including Unilever, Charlotte Tilbury, Elemis Loop, and about 50 more to manage, measure and scale their Advocacy member, affiliate, creator and brand ambassador operations. The platform offers unparalleled scale for complex brands by automating nine out of ten of the standard Advocacy management activities and allowing them to focus on arming their Advocates with the right tools to tell the brand story and drive Social Commerce, they can grow faster for less.
We only work with 15% or so of the brands we speak to, but we try and add value in many other ways, this podcast being one of them. So if you are a brand that's interested in this, maybe a large consumer retail brand, ideally you're doing $20-$30 million as a minimum, and you're pretty advanced on social and you need to know what the next stage is, then please get in touch. Email me at paul@duel.tech, that is Paul @ D, U, E, L Dot T, E, C, H or Google Duel dot Tech.
Verity Hurd [00:23:46]:
With Instagram Lies. I mean, obviously it's still, I mean, live Commerce. I mean, obviously there's TikTok lives, TikTok shops. I mean, it's still. A lot of people are embracing it, but it's still relatively a new space. What is kind of one of the biggest takeaways you've learned from Instagram Lives as a channel?
Jo Tutchener Sharp [00:24:04]:
So live shopping was an absolute nightmare. So we tried live shopping, where you have to give the codes out and go, right, this one is a three, two, one. And add this, wasn't it? And it was. Oh, my God, it was a nightmare. And it was a nightmare. It's hard enough remembering your showing and all this. I actually quite enjoy Instagram Lives. I don't find them because you're not.
You can't see an audience, so you're not scared or anything. And you see, I love watching all the comments coming up and the questions and things. But when you add in the mix of the live shopping, it's another level of confusion. Everyone's going, what's the code? What's the code? Where do I put my God? And that. I don't think. Well, I think the system we were using just definitely. And also it wouldn't work loads of the time. So we'd be going live and people would be going.
We were on live on Facebook, but not Instagram. Or. It was. It just seemed to always go wrong. So I was like, let's just park the live shopping for now. Let's just carry on doing the live. The customers love. I mean, they love it.
They love it when we do a live. We've got another one next week.
Verity Hurd [00:25:02]:
I saw that advertised. I suppose it's like you treat like an event, isn't it?
Jo Tutchener Sharp [00:25:05]:
Yeah, it's just showing, showing the new. They love waiting. And some of our. The duders get together so they can watch it together with a glass of wine.
Verity Hurd [00:25:13]:
Really.
Jo Tutchener Sharp [00:25:13]:
Which is really cute.
Verity Hurd [00:25:14]:
Wow.
Jo Tutchener Sharp [00:25:15]:
Yeah. Because we reveal all the new collections. Sometimes we'll launch things on that night and we'll have models or some of the team coming in and showing them on and. And it's really fun. It's like a kind of. I guess it's quite a girly night.
Verity Hurd [00:25:25]:
Yeah. That's incredible. How has it. Or has it changed the way you interact with customers? Has it added like a new level of interaction for you through the lives?
Jo Tutchener Sharp [00:25:35]:
Yeah, well, the lives. We've been doing the lives for a while, so that's. That's kind of. It's more. The more recent thing is probably the store events because we've been opening the stores over the last Two years really. So. And we're. So we're doing them more regularly.
So we've done three recently. We've got another one this Friday and we're trying to do more in store events as well. Over and above, just the new store launches. So trying to get our community love getting together and they all as well, they come on their own so they'll, they'll meet up because they'll know there'll be other dudes there and you'll see them all chatting, going, I'm coming on my own. Who's going? And they'll go, oh, I'll look after you.
Verity Hurd [00:26:10]:
You know what, I saw that in the group when you had your pop up in York, because I'm from York and there was people arranging to meet with each other so they could come in and they would do like three hour, four hour drives.
Jo Tutchener Sharp [00:26:20]:
Like, well, when we opened the Marlowe shop, we had people waiting in the queue, I remember. So my husband came into business a couple of years ago and he's been managing the retail expansion and he was down there in the morning of the store opening in Marlow and he came back going, as in before we'd opened. So he was just doing the last minute, kind of. I was at home getting ready to go and cut the ribbon and open the whole shop and he came back and went, oh my God, there's a massive queue already. Something like 7:00 in the morning. Oh my goodness. Oh my goodness. I was like, I wish, I wish.
I got some kind of elaborate entrance planned, like to like skydive in or something. Instead my dad just dropped me around in his car and I just got out of the car and they all screamed and I was like, oh my God, this is amazing. It was very unexpected and cute, but I think that because that was our. We did have a little store in Highgate in North London for a while, but I closed that during lockdown and we all sort of moved out of London. So I was like, that's not right. But Marlow was our first proper store, first big store. So I think people were traveling from. I mean there were people in that queue that come from the Isle of Man, that come from Cornwall, that come from Sheffield, they come all.
And every time we do an event, you're speaking to everyone going, you've come from where? Oh my goodness. They travel to come.
Verity Hurd [00:27:35]:
Yeah.
Jo Tutchener Sharp [00:27:36]:
And it's partly to come to Scamp and Dood. It's partly to come and meet the team, but it's also to meet each other. They all support each other so much. It's this very special community where they're coming to see each other as well. And one of the one thing I love is, is if people see other people wearing scamp and, dude, they will always talk to them, even if they're not wearing it themselves. But they will go up and say. They say that basically they'll go and say hello and introduce themselves and then start a conversation. Or if they're really.
Jo Tutchener Sharp [00:28:01]:
If they're a bit nervous, they'll just shout Duda at them and then give them a look like hi. Which I also love. I just think it's so gorgeous. It's like starting all these conversations and relationships and just spreading a bit of happiness. It's. It's lovely.
Verity Hurd [00:28:16]:
And it's such a recognizable brand as well. Like, you know, even if, you know, obviously I'm in the denim, but even with the logo, like, the super power button, like, is so recognizable. And I do the same. Like, if I see people in scamper, dude, I want to shout something, but I didn't know I could just shout Judah. I love that. So going back to the lives TikTok, obviously that has become a, you know, a massive channel. How do you see TikTok fitting into your strategy going forward?
Jo Tutchener Sharp [00:28:46]:
So we've been humming and ahhing over this, and we've kind of tested the water a little bit. We do a little bit on TikTok, but not a huge amount. We did a TikTok live. I think the customer on TikTok is still a lot younger.
Verity Hurd [00:29:01]:
Yeah.
Jo Tutchener Sharp [00:29:01]:
So our main demographic is about 35 to 55. So that's still quite a small amount of TikTok's consumer. And so it's just not. Do you think how many hours you've got in a day? I think we got to the point where we're kind of saying you kind of have to focus on what's where your customer really is at the moment. And really, for us, they're on Instagram and there's some on Facebook. Instagram's our biggest customer base. And then we've got Facebook, which is slightly smaller, but it's still really important. And then TikTok, we're kind of playing with TikTok and trying to get heads around it and trying to give it a go, but also being a bit mindful not.
Not to kind of spend too much time, because you can end up spending so much time on everything that starts. And even though TikTok is important, it's having the time to create that content as well, because you can't just put the same content on Instagram as you can and TikTok. And that's so specific. It's tricky.
Verity Hurd [00:29:56]:
It's tricky.
Jo Tutchener Sharp [00:29:57]:
I wish we had more time so we could focus on it, but.
Verity Hurd [00:30:00]:
I know. But then. But then you're right. And you know, Instagram is your biggest platform. And I think a lot of brands are getting this wrong in some ways now because we do feel like we need to be across everything. And actually, you know, we're having it where we're actually like, let's just double down, triple down on what we know works. And that's what you guys have always done.
Jo Tutchener Sharp [00:30:18]:
Spreading too thin. I was glad when Twitter kind of got moved aside because I was like, I don't even have to look at that. Like, forget that.
Verity Hurd [00:30:25]:
And then threads didn't really kind of do much.
Jo Tutchener Sharp [00:30:28]:
No, exactly. I think. But I'm glad because every time there's a new one, you're like, oh, my God. Another thing to try and remember. This is a bit of a nightmare.
Verity Hurd [00:30:33]:
Yeah. I listened to a podcast with you. I think it came out in January, and you mentioned that there were certain parts in the business that you're learning to kind of step back from as you grow the team. And I'm just interesting because you mentioned that you were getting a new marketing director, I think starting in January. And marketing and social has been one of the areas where you're stepping back. And I know we've kind of touched on it, but I just wanted to find out what has that looked like from being obviously the founder to getting in a marketing director? How have you found that transition? What has that journey looked like?
Jo Tutchener Sharp [00:31:05]:
Feels like it's quite recent and still has taken some kind of bedding in into the business as well. And for me, I find it quite hard to be as hands off with marketing, but actually I work quite closely with the marketing director and we're very aligned on how we see things, which is really important. So it's been a really good. It's been a really good decision because I'm still very involved in all of those. That side of things. That's probably, I'd say the side of the business that I've moved away from the most is the operations, finance, operations side where my husband's come in and he's overseeing them. That side of things more.
Verity Hurd [00:31:47]:
What's it like working with your husband as well?
Jo Tutchener Sharp [00:31:48]:
It's actually brilliant. I know. I was really scared of. So you're like, oh, my God, I Can't risk anything going wrong with this. But you're not going to find anyone that loves the brand as much as you do, apart from your husband, who's been there from the beginning, from its inception, and he absolutely loves it. And he's got a different skill set to me, so he's been. He's invaluable, really. And the way he sees things, it's been brilliant and it's really nice.
The only problem we have is talking too much about work and having to stop ourselves, like, going, we're not. We've tried this thing where you're not allowed to talk about work after seven does not work. And then we went out on. We had a date night on Friday night, which first date night in probably about a year. And we were like, do you know, cannot talk about work. And then suddenly we'd be like, can we just talk about this one thing? And then we went, talk about work. Okay. And then.
But actually, we both love it so much that actually, it's not a. It's not like we're all going, oh, God, this is.
Verity Hurd [00:32:40]:
It's actually the passion.
Jo Tutchener Sharp [00:32:41]:
Yeah. So I was like, well, if we're talking about positive things, I think we can talk about it any time. We just can't talk about any bad things because then we might get in a bad mood.
Verity Hurd [00:32:52]:
That's brilliant. I don't think I could do it. Sorry, I interrupted you about the journey and the transition with. With your marketing director.
Jo Tutchener Sharp [00:33:00]:
Yes. So I say other sides of the business. I have managed to kind of move back from more. I'm much closer with the marketing and social teams and the buying design teams. So they're the teams that I tend to work a lot closer with. And I guess that's where my passions lie, and that's where my strengths lie as well. You know, get me to start talking about the warehouse and things like that. It's not where my strengths are.
So there's other people who are much better at doing that than me.
Verity Hurd [00:33:30]:
Do you see? I mean, obviously we talked about it, you being the face of the brand. And when you do, is it very much you that do the Instagram lives? Do you. Does your team get involved in that?
Jo Tutchener Sharp [00:33:41]:
So the team do all the prep. So it's a lot that goes into an Instagram live. It used to basically be me doing the whole of it, where I'd literally go, what am I launching? Then I'd be steaming them on a rail and I do them from home. And I'd be like, oh, my God. This is getting quite a lot of work. Work to do in the evening before, after a day at work and then now it's. It's like this well oiled machine where it's in the office. The buying team have been working with the marketing team to work out exactly what's coming over the next few weeks.
It's all steamed and beautifully lined up and with all the tags, the. We call it the MPD is, is on the desk show telling me exactly what's launching, what the. And when and all the prices which the team have put together.
Verity Hurd [00:34:20]:
Yeah.
Jo Tutchener Sharp [00:34:21]:
And the lighting's all set up, the camera's all set up and now some of them are sat there with me so they can put messages up if I can't, if I miss what someone's asked. And like one time I went live from my personal Instagram scamp and do. Joe.
Verity Hurd [00:34:34]:
Yeah.
Jo Tutchener Sharp [00:34:34]:
Instead of scamp and do by accident. And so they were able to hold that up and go, you've got life on the wrong Instagram account. And I was like, oh, great. So it's quite nice having the team there for that as well. But they do all the prep and there's quite a lot because you don't double checking exact launch dates as to the buying team and checking with the suppliers. It's definitely on track. Is it definitely launching then? And so, yeah, the team do all the prep for that and then on when it goes live. It's me.
That's my. My bit.
Verity Hurd [00:35:02]:
Yeah.
Jo Tutchener Sharp [00:35:02]:
And then we have various members of the team coming and yeah. Wearing. Showing them the clothes as well.
Verity Hurd [00:35:07]:
Yeah.
Jo Tutchener Sharp [00:35:08]:
During the live, which is really nice.
Verity Hurd [00:35:09]:
As well, introducing the teams. Because I was going to say, do you. Do you feel that it will continue to be you that obviously as the face of the brand? How do you. How do you transition other members of the team to kind of support you in that? Because yeah, you're one person and it's also.
Jo Tutchener Sharp [00:35:23]:
It's kind of. Who wants to do it as well? Our marketing director is. I think she'd quite enjoy it and quite enjoy it and be quite good at it as well. Like she did the live with. We did our first Live Live which was from our Manchester City Centre shop opening. We actually did a live live at the launch party. So we had a stage, we had the rail of clothes and we actually did this live live from there and she helped, she did it with me, which was actually really nice to have someone there talking to and she was great. So, yeah, there might be occasions where we go, well, actually it doesn't have to be, because I think that's the thing now as well.
It's like I'm all over, but here, there and everywhere. Doing goodness knows what. And even just the founder part of my job has me pulled all over the place, let alone the CEO bit, let alone still doing. Very involved with the design side of things. And so it is starting to get a bit like, oh, my God, this is quite a lot. So, yeah, I guess I have to start looking again. Every. Every kind of six months, I have to start looking and going, where am I adding the most value? Where am I not? And where have I.
Even if I love it, I'm maybe I'm going to have to kind of. And it's just making that decision and having a little sense check every six months to go. Okay, I think I'm going to have to pass that one on.
Verity Hurd [00:36:34]:
Yeah, that's really interesting, looking at where you potentially really love doing, but maybe not adding the value that I could.
Jo Tutchener Sharp [00:36:42]:
Do it yes, as well or better even.
Verity Hurd [00:36:44]:
Yeah, yeah, I love that. Let's talk about the Dudas and particularly the Facebook group, because, you know, there's thousands of people in that group and as we've talked about, they're incredibly engaged. It's, you know, such a rare kind of organic interaction. What would be. What's the one thing that makes it so special, do you think?
Jo Tutchener Sharp [00:37:04]:
I think how they interact with each other and how they support each other. So people use it as a really safe space. People use it for different things. One, sharing styling tips. And what do you think of this? Does it look nice? And then everyone will comments and everyone's really honest. They go, I don't think that actually.
Verity Hurd [00:37:20]:
They are honest in a nice, kind way.
Jo Tutchener Sharp [00:37:23]:
Not in a. Oh, no. They'll go, oh, I think that might be better in this color on you or whatever. Like, really kind of supportive. Or people will just be like, oh, my God, you're killing that. That looks amazing. Definitely, you need to buy. You need to keep it.
Or different ways of wearing things, different shapes and sizes, wearing things as well. That's one side of it. But then the other side of it is just this unbelievable support network. So people will go on there to say they're having a bad day. Like some. There's certain people that I have got in my head now that always put, go on and just go, I'm really struggling today. I'm really. My mental health's really struggling today.
And the dude is pile in straight away. Like, you can do this. Go for a walk or you know just filling them up with confidence and trying to lift them up and that is just, I absolutely love that side of it. Or they send each other, they'll send each other things and on our tags, on our swing tags there's also a little round one that says superpower button that's got all the different superpowers you can get from pressing and they'll send each other one of those just as a little through the, through the post just to go I sent you a little superpower button as like a little boost and they just really look out for each other and support and it's this kind of sisterhood. It's gorgeous. And I think that's one of the most special things about it. And I was trying to go on as often as I can and comment and like various pictures and people put, people put shoutouts for things as well like one of them her. There was a few this week actually.
In fact there's about been about three recently people who've heard my story and come on and said my sister in law or my friend is. Has got a brain tumor and is having to have brain surgery. She's terrified. If anyone's got any advice and I'm. What I do is I'll, I'll arrange a teams call or a FaceTime with them so I can talk them through things that would have helped me in the run up to my brain surgery.
Verity Hurd [00:39:11]:
Yeah.
Jo Tutchener Sharp [00:39:12]:
And I've had two of those calls this week in fact which is slightly concerning that this many women are starting to have brain. I don't know if it's just so happens that more people are hearing about my story so therefore more but it's quite alarming how many people are being. I want the one was on the Manchester News actually because she'd been to the doctors, been to the hospital saying or giving all these weird things that were happening to her and everyone was like oh yeah, it's all your hormones and didn't even scan. Didn't scan her.
Verity Hurd [00:39:45]:
Everything's our hormones.
Jo Tutchener Sharp [00:39:46]:
Yeah. And then she went to have an eye test and the eye test found that she had a tumor. So she's now oh God, I need to message her. She's. She's have had brain surgery today and so yeah I need to remember to message her to see how she is. And the horrible thing about that is that she. If the optician hadn't found it what would have happened? So she's doing some a campaign with opticians now to try and encourage more people like listen you know, if something's not right and if the hospital won't scan you, get yourself to the optician because they're going to see. It's scary.
Verity Hurd [00:40:20]:
But that's the true kind of. That's where you're seeing the truth. True, like, purpose of the brand coming out there. Like, the fact that people, they're hearing your story, they want to talk about it more and.
Jo Tutchener Sharp [00:40:30]:
Yeah.
Verity Hurd [00:40:30]:
And, you know, you getting them on a call and, you know, helping them through that, it's just.
Jo Tutchener Sharp [00:40:35]:
Yeah, there's been. There's been lots of things over the years that have been. And it's hard not to take it on as well. Like suddenly I got completely thrown chatting then because I realized she was having the surgery today. And I was like, didn't message her this morning because I'd given them my mobile number and said, WhatsApp me if you need anything. And I forgot to WhatsApp her this morning. So I will straight after this. But there was a lady years ago when I'd not long started scamp and dude and she contacted me and she was saying, I've just been listening to an interview with you and I've got terminal bowel cancer.
And I heard you were writing letters to your kids before your surgery in case you didn't make it through. And I'm just doing the same. So I wanted to reach out to you and I built this relationship with her and it was. It was so kind of such a lovely, pure relationship that we were messing with each other all the time because she could tell me things she couldn't tell her family. Because that's the thing when you're going through something like you can't admit to your friends and family how scared you are of dying or anything like that because you don't want to upset them. But to me they can. So I'm always like, well, just be honest with me. I'll be there for you.
And we were messaging loads. And then I sent her a sweatshirt to say. And I sent all her. She had three girls. And I sent the three girls a sweatshirt as well, the matching one, and said, call these your mummy jumper. Told her about the super power button and said, you can all press it. And then suddenly she wasn't replying to my messages. And then a couple of days later, I got this message from her husband saying, oh, you're on the list to let no, but she's passed away.
And I was devastated. And I'm like, I've never actually met this lady, but I built this relationship this is how real these relationships can be with customers and people you meet. And I was devastated. And the weirdest thing happened then, which was one of my very, very best friends moved to Sheffield and she got a knock on her door and this lady, she opened the door, she just moved in. And it was the lady going, oh, I'm your next door neighbor. Just bringing you a bottle of wine to say hello. And they were both wearing a Scamp and dude jumper. So.
And she went, oh my God, you're wearing Scamp and Dude. And Katie said, oh, it's my best friend who started it. And she went, your best friend's Jo? And she went, yes. Do you know Joe? And she goes, no, but she really helped my sister. My sister died recently of it and she's really helped her. She sent them all tops. We all wear Scamp and Dude. And it was her sister.
So I've since met her sister and had coffee with her sister and been able to give her a hug and go, these weird things that happen around Scamp and Dude, which is just kind of magical and meant to be type thing.
Verity Hurd [00:42:59]:
But if I do say it's like a cult, like, is that offensive? Because like, you know, I think it's just such a strong word to sort of like bring it all together really, because that stuff doesn't happen with like any other brand that I've spoken to. We've interviewed a lot of brands. I mean, sort of with that. What are the. What would you kind of like narrow down some of the tactics to kind of. If we're just summarize all of this to cultivate such a strong community.
Jo Tutchener Sharp [00:43:28]:
So definitely one is be authentic, mean it, be real. If you don't actually enjoy meeting people and talking, get someone else in the team who does to do it. Because it's got to be authentic and real. Take the time, really listen and care and take the time to build those relationships and meet with the customer, chat to the customer. I think that's. I think they're the main things and also see what you can do for them. So it's not just always about giving them a gift with purchase, it's about helping them out. Like do they need a call, do they need a bit more support? Do they need a little something sending, like listen to what's going on in their lives.
Not just in a salesy way out there, people, what's. What, what, what else might they need? Yeah, I think that's, that's the way we look at it. Yeah, for sure.
Verity Hurd [00:44:10]:
And what do you think brands are getting wrong when it comes to building advocacy.
Jo Tutchener Sharp [00:44:14]:
I guess maybe they're not looking thinking of their customer enough. Maybe they're just thinking of sales rather than their customers as people. Yeah, that's probably. Yeah, I reckon that's probably.
Verity Hurd [00:44:28]:
Yeah. 100% agreed. Jo, this has been absolutely beautiful talking to you. I've loved hearing the stories. Where can everybody find you?
Jo Tutchener Sharp [00:44:36]:
So we have stores in Marlow, Cambridge, Edinburgh, Manchester, City Centre, Manchester Trafford Centre, Battersea Power Station, and we're opening Brighton on Friday.
Verity Hurd [00:44:50]:
That's amazing. Congratulations.
Jo Tutchener Sharp [00:44:51]:
Really excited about the Brighton one and then scampandjude.com online and then social media. I'm on Scamp and Dude Joe, so if anyone wants to talk to me because I'm not on the other end of the Scamp and Dude one anymore. I am sometimes, but I really try not to be. Every now and again I have a look and. Yeah, yeah, step back, step back.
Verity Hurd [00:45:13]:
Honestly, such a great brand story. Like, it's been great listening to it. Thank you.
Paul Archer [00:45:19]:
That was another episode of Building Brand Advocacy, the world's top brand building podcast. To find out more about Building Brand Advocacy and how this podcast is part of a bigger plan for our brand building cookbook, then make sure to search for Building Brand Advocacy in Apple podcasts, Spotify, Google Podcasts, or anywhere else that podcasts are fine. And make sure that you click subscribe so you don't miss any future episodes. Thanks to Duel for sponsoring. To find out more, go to www.duel.tech. That's D U E L dot T E C H and on behalf of the team here at Building Brand Advocacy, thanks for listening.
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