Marielle Wyse [00:00:00]:
When you're a founder, what you have to do is try things that you just think are a bit mad, but why wouldn't you? As long as you're not doing something foolhardy or risky or disrespectful or whatever it is, and it's within the confines of financial sense, you know, you haven't got so much to lose. And both those times when I've done that, they paid off.
Paul Archer [00:00:31]:
Have you ever wondered why some brands grow exponentially, building legions of passionate fans that live and die by their logos and some, well, don't? I do, all the time. And that's probably because I'm a massive brand nerd. But I believe there's a secret sauce at the core of every remarkable brand. A formula that sparks the growth of passionate communities, of superfans, building a business and a reputation that will last for years to come.
In this podcast, we tap into the greatest marketing minds in the world as they share the exact tactics and strategies used to build the world's greatest brands. Dropping actionable insights every brand builder can apply.
My name is Paul Archer and I'm a specialist in Brand Advocacy and word-of-mouth. Having consulted for hundreds of brands on a topic co hosting with me is the wonderful Verity Hurd, expert on the bleeding edge of social media.
It's time to learn and build Brand Advocacy.
Verity Hurd [00:01:27]:
Okay, so today I am joined by the wonderful founder and creative director of the beautiful women's wear brand, WYSE London. Marielle, welcome to the show. It's fabulous to have you.
Marielle Wyse [00:01:38]:
Thank you very much for inviting me. It's lovely to be here.
Verity Hurd [00:01:41]:
Thank you. I. There's loads of things I want to chat to you about. Obviously from founding the brand since 2015, sort of finding your niche, the WYSE London community. But I. I wanted to start with Instagram because obviously Instagram is like a powerhouse in its own right, but I know that it's been a core platform for WYSE London for growth and engagement. And I just wanted to kind of dig into, from a founder's perspective, your relationship with Instagram and Sartre and share the strategy behind sort of, you know, WYSE London strategy.
Marielle Wyse [00:02:19]:
That big word. Yeah, the strategy between us and Instagram.
Verity Hurd [00:02:25]:
Yeah. Because, I mean, you've got over 150,000 followers, and that's not easy. And I suppose it's kind of like, yeah, your relationship with it and how have you got from zero to where you are today?
Marielle Wyse [00:02:39]:
In all honesty, I'm not sure how, but we have, I think, because we converse very, very actively with the customer, so we're really Very proactive on Instagram. It's not just a plat for showing pretty pictures. We are, this is what we're doing. This is how you wear. What color should we do this in? You know, we're constantly. It's a very alive Instagram, if that makes sense. So it's a very focused on our customer and their views and, and their feedback. So it's really helped us grow because I think for a start, it's made the brand stronger, but it's also really, really made us listen to what she wants.
And so it's a two way platform. Platform as opposed to a one way platform, I think. And you know, it grew a lot for us, which I'm sure we'll come to during COVID That was a big, big growth and we've never really gone back on that.
Verity Hurd [00:03:38]:
Oh, nice. Let's just dig into that because I wanted to ask if you've sort of ever had those moments where you've experienced significant growth on the platform and obviously Covid is one of them.
Marielle Wyse [00:03:48]:
Yes.
Verity Hurd [00:03:48]:
Yeah.
Marielle Wyse [00:03:48]:
So basically, to cut a very long story short, we were a wholesale and a direct to consumer business. So we operated two models. And then Covid happened in February 2020. Well, March, but February, we'd done a fair, we'd done loads of wholesale orders. Then we went back to the office, they said, we're going to shut the country down and you won't be able to do this, that and the other. And I said, well, we have to cancel every single wholesale order because I don't know what we'll come back to. And then we went home, we halved all the orders and I took a rail of clothes home and I just turned the camera on myself, Instagram on myself. And I sort just had this conversation with the customer and I said, well, look, it's pretty rubbish out there.
Should we just have a chat to each other and see how we feel? Do you think this is a nice top? And they kind of went, yeah. And I was like, okay, should we make it? And they were like, yeah. So it was like a funny little virtual conversation in a time where we probably needed that. It was funny because we created an Instagram, we became an Instagram brand at that point, or much more so than we had been before.
Verity Hurd [00:04:54]:
Yeah.
Marielle Wyse [00:04:54]:
And it brought us alive.
Verity Hurd [00:04:56]:
Yeah. And you can see that as well. And I mean, obviously your Instagram, it feels, it feels personal, but yet it's still got that kind of sophisticated, polished look in an authentic way.
Marielle Wyse [00:05:08]:
Kind of. Not always, but mostly.
Verity Hurd [00:05:13]:
Yes, I know, but it's such a wonderful mix to get right. And not everybody can do that.
Marielle Wyse [00:05:17]:
You know, I think that if you have an authentic brand with a real heart and soul, even if sometimes it's a bit something that you don't exactly want it to be, people will forgive you. They'd rather know that you were true to yourself. And then, you know, you say, actually, that wasn't so great, was it? And they'll say, well, no, but come on, what are you going to do next? So I think again, it's down to dialogue and it's down to being true to who you are, really. And I think we're a very true brand.
Verity Hurd [00:05:44]:
Yeah. And do you, do you kind of like with Instagram, do you feel safe then to test and learn different things on that platform?
Marielle Wyse [00:05:52]:
Yeah, I think we do. And actually they love it. You know, our customer loves it because she loves to be involved and she loves to be validated. And I think that, you know, this is something I stand by very, very strongly. You are no brand without your customer. You are nothing. So she is number one in my mind and she gives me a lot of joy as well. When we get it right, when we get it wrong, I get frustrated.
So she helps me get it for us to get it better. And we need to converse with her all the time.
Verity Hurd [00:06:24]:
Tell me a little bit around the tactics of how you do that two way dialogue.
Marielle Wyse [00:06:29]:
Well, we have lives twice a week. We also bring members of the community onto the live as well. So some of the customers come on the live and some of the customers have become friends or they become brand ambassadors or whatever we call them. And so the real woman is represented. And we try and show as much different shapes and sizes so we can show clothes on different shapes and size women, you know, different needs. We try often to ask them what they need in their wardrobe. The last thing I want to do is make clothes that no one wants to buy. Yeah, there's no point for anyone.
And so if she says, look, I really want a pair of, you know, flared jeans in purple or whatever it is, well, happy days for both of us. Chances are she won't. But yeah, it's an openness. I think it's created.
Verity Hurd [00:07:20]:
Yeah. How do you think it shifted then? Sort of. If you think about your content, I'm gonna say the big word again. Strategy. I don't know where the. I don't know if brands have strategies anymore. It feels like we're just kind of evolving and reacting to what's happening every day. But how has it shifted from pre Covid to post Covid.
Marielle Wyse [00:07:39]:
That's actually a really interesting question because we have had to change our tone. And not only that, I think Instagram itself has changed from the days, you know, it was, it was an amazing growth tool for me personally because it allowed me, with very little budget to grow the brand. Obviously now it's, it's, it's a. Instagram is a different platform so you have to learn the parameters of it a bit better, but you still have to constantly try new things. I think it's all about using your imagination and just thinking the whole time, what, keeping fresh. What can we do differently? What does the customer want? Serving your end use at the end of the day, but also remembering, you know, how you want to dress women. I think there's this funny thing is like, I like to tell her what to wear, but I like to ask her what to wear, but I also like to guide her in what to wear. So it's a kind of, it's like, come on, try this.
You know, she's like, do you think? Yeah, yeah, go for it. And it's quite sweet, really.
Verity Hurd [00:08:41]:
Yeah. Tell me a little bit about your customer. A little bit more who she is.
Marielle Wyse [00:08:46]:
So I think she's probably 35, 40 plus.
Verity Hurd [00:08:51]:
Yeah.
Marielle Wyse [00:08:52]:
She in many ways has, feels a bit unheard. She feels like she wants to be noticed. And I think in a very youth orientated society, a woman who maybe has had a little bit more experience of life feels a little bit kind of like put down. And so the last thing I want to do is to make her feel like that. I want her to feel very heard. A lot of women say, you've brought my fashion mojo back. You know, you've given me confidence. And actually the whole sort of ethic of the brand is to support her and to make her feel better about herself and not to make her feel or look wrong, you know, not wrong, but just not happy in her soul.
So it's to elevate her in her. And it's just very, very lovely to watch.
Verity Hurd [00:09:44]:
Yeah, I love that. And it's so powerful. I mean it sounds so simple. I mean even this lovely leopard print.
Marielle Wyse [00:09:52]:
It looks very nice.
Verity Hurd [00:09:53]:
It's gorgeous, absolutely gorgeous. And you notice the difference between something like this and. I'm not gonna start badmouthing any other brands but you know, it just, and like I said, it just feels so simple to put on something. And you're right, it does make you feel a little bit more elegant.
Marielle Wyse [00:10:09]:
There should be a little twist and, and I believe in clothing that it's not shouty clothing necessarily, but it's like a bit different and somebody comes up to you, that's nice. And you. You kind of. You're not. They haven't noticed. They've talked to you and they've noticed you and they've noticed you look nice and then they notice what you wear, not the other way around. Not like you've come in and completely dominated the room with what you're wearing. It's a very different perspective.
Verity Hurd [00:10:33]:
Absolutely. I want to go back to. You said you just kind of turned the camera around and started talking on Instagram. Did that come naturally to you? I suppose, first of all.
Marielle Wyse [00:10:42]:
Well, it's funny old thing this, because in my varied career of life, which I've had a few careers in life and this is the first time I've ever run a brand, but I had a television career and so I used to make natural history documentaries and documentaries. And so when I had the camera turned on me, I knew a little bit about how to edit myself. And that can be a really powerful tool. And so when you're talking, you're like, stop. You're just waffling on. Marielle, shush. And so you're in your head, you're. You're editing yourself and it's.
And it's quite useful that actually. So I'm pressing the edit button all the time.
Verity Hurd [00:11:18]:
Oh, wow. Would that be sort of your biggest tip then, for. Because.
Marielle Wyse [00:11:22]:
Yes.
Verity Hurd [00:11:23]:
I mean, less is more, less is more.
Marielle Wyse [00:11:25]:
Definitely leave them wanting more. I think, you know, there's. I'm not going to talk about what other people do. It doesn't. It's not my business, but I think you are better, shorter and sweeter in life and getting to the point, having a joke, having fun. The other thing is, I find with it is, it's not just about, here's a pretty top. It's a lovely shade of, you know, beige or whatever it is. It's about the other bits, you know, oh, gosh, my son's just, you know, I sort of do little asides and I don't do it.
It's only because it's a community and they know I've got two children and sometimes I say I'm off to Paris or, you know, I don't give details or anything like that. But I. I like to bring in the reality of my life because I'm a woman just like them. Yeah, I'm exactly the same as our customer. There's no difference between us.
Verity Hurd [00:12:12]:
And I Suppose that. How are you going to ensure? Because obviously the brand is going to grow and you know, I hope, yeah, it is and it will. How are you going to ensure? Because obviously you are very much the face of the brand. How are you going to ensure that maintains.
Marielle Wyse [00:12:27]:
And it's a very, very, very good question and it is something that I'm acutely aware of. I think we need to bring more people in that represent the brand and that have the same tone. And I'm already doing that. So, you know, there are people that are involved that have a similar outlook. So you just have to have more voices that can do that. And in theory, that should filter through. I mean, when I go into the shops and I see the members of staff and they say to me and I meet the customers and they've had a great experience, that is an extension of me, that I want them to feel exactly the same as if it was me serving them. So the staff that work in the shop are just an extension of me.
So I'm very nurturing, hopefully of the staff so they can nurture the customer as well.
Verity Hurd [00:13:13]:
I mean, that must be really difficult.
Marielle Wyse [00:13:15]:
It requires work and focus and thought and all those things.
Verity Hurd [00:13:21]:
But if you get that right, that's definitely going to pay off.
Marielle Wyse [00:13:24]:
I think it's people. Thank you. I do not want people to go in just as much as I was saying, it's a difficult time for some of the women's lives. I don't want them to go in there and walk out feeling worse about themselves. I want them to come out feeling better about themselves. And they often do. They mostly do, definitely.
Verity Hurd [00:13:40]:
And how would that work online then as well? Because obviously you're doing the Instagram lives mostly.
Marielle Wyse [00:13:46]:
I think the imagery in itself is quite warm as well. I sort of don't want it too aloof. I want the imagery to be relaxed and a little bit sexy, bit engaging, a bit warp. But I don't want it to be too scary, you know, I want her to feel like she can achieve that look, I mean, that's why a lot of our customers say they like it on. I have this lovely colleague that I work with called Kath and they like to see it on us because we represent their age group or some other people, but, you know, more not just the young girl.
Verity Hurd [00:14:22]:
And we have an audience full of marketers and, you know, some of them work with founder led brands and founder led brands are becoming more and more prominent these days. But not every founder is as natural or wants or kind of even gets the concept of how important it is to be the face of a brand or to get out there and show themselves. What would be your tips or advice for the marketers that are kind of in that place where they're desperately trying to get more of their founder or, you know, other people in the business to get involved?
Marielle Wyse [00:14:54]:
Well, I think you can. I think you can't force, what's the expression, square peg into a round hole or something. I think you've got to work a little bit with what you've got. You can't make somebody something they're not. You can bring out elements of a person. If you can spot elements and you can give them confidence, you can make them a little bit better. But I think spotting. And if it isn't that person, it could be another person.
I think you have to be realistic. You don't want to go down, be inauthentic and make somebody do something that they don't feel comfortable in, but you might be able to spot another person or another tool, another way of doing it that they feel comfortable with.
Verity Hurd [00:15:31]:
Yeah, I mean, something that's really popping up at the moment is obviously employee generated content as well. And obviously you've just mentioned your team in the stores. Would they sort of. Would you consider bringing them into the envelope?
Marielle Wyse [00:15:45]:
You know, just as you're saying it, I'm just thinking, oh, that maybe I should go to the stores and do some content with constantly thinking of ideas 100%. You know what? Try it. Yeah, like, the chances are it probably will work because they love it and they actually. What they love is when it's not quite right, you know, like a bit messy and it goes a bit wrong and there's a giggle in the corner. And the best Instagrams I've ever done is when the DHL man sort of knocks at the door halfway through and I have to go, and then he wants a chat and I can't have a chat. And they're giggling away and then they converse with each other and I'm like, no, you know, anyway, quite funny.
Verity Hurd [00:16:21]:
I was just going to ask you actually, what has been one of your most successful Instagram lives and why?
Marielle Wyse [00:16:27]:
There was one I did with this girl, this woman that we still work with called Judith. I remember to this very day, it was her first or second one and she just couldn't get it right. And then the camera kept falling over and then this, that and the other, and I just got the giggles and everybody was. And it was just, it was just. It was just chaotic and she was trying to cloak phone, you know, try clothes on and everything. And the whole thing was just a shambles. But at the end of it I just was just giggling for like 20 minutes. It was just funny.
Verity Hurd [00:16:55]:
But that's very natural.
Marielle Wyse [00:16:56]:
It was really natural. But we were a bit more professional.
Verity Hurd [00:17:00]:
The next time, I mean, let's kind of go into the Instagram Live. So you're doing two a week. I mean, that's a lot.
Marielle Wyse [00:17:07]:
It is a lot. Yeah, it is a lot.
Verity Hurd [00:17:08]:
How do you. What is kind of like your process of setting up an Instagram Live? I'm guessing two a week.
Marielle Wyse [00:17:14]:
Do you want to know the honest answer?
Verity Hurd [00:17:16]:
I was going to say you probably got this nailed, right? But maybe not.
Marielle Wyse [00:17:18]:
Well, it's not that professional. I don't know about that. I take a couple, a couple of suitcases, get sent home, I put them on a rail and I do a live that's in the at home where I do one a week and then we have a shop one and there we bring on guests and that's all sent ahead of time. And I mean, it's actually quite slick. Now we've got it down to quite a good art. And what happens with the lives is that we have a certain amount viewing and then it builds during time and we get some good, you know, we get, we. We have fun and the Christmas ones are fun and the, you know, it might be a birthday or I might get my daughter on if I can ever get her on. They love it when she comes on, but that's.
It's a bit like gold dust that one.
Verity Hurd [00:17:57]:
How old is your daughter?
Marielle Wyse [00:17:58]:
She's 23.
Verity Hurd [00:17:59]:
Oh, okay.
Marielle Wyse [00:18:00]:
They love it because she gives me a little bit of attitude and it's quite funny.
Verity Hurd [00:18:06]:
I want to see that.
Marielle Wyse [00:18:07]:
Let's do it if need. I'll try.
Paul Archer [00:18:12]:
Hey, it's me again. This podcast is sponsored by Duel, which is my company, actually. Duel is the leading Brand Advocacy platform used by the top retail consumer brands, including Unilever, Charlotte Tilbury, Elemis Loop, and about 50 more to manage, measure and scale their Advocacy member, affiliate, creator and brand ambassador operations. The platform offers unparalleled scale for complex brands by automating nine out of ten of the standard Advocacy management activities and allowing them to focus on arming their Advocates with the right tools to tell the brand story and drive Social Commerce, they can grow faster for less.
We only work with 15% or so of the brands we speak to, but we try and add value in many other ways, this podcast being one of them. So if you are a brand that's interested in this, maybe a large consumer retail brand, ideally you're doing $20-$30 million as a minimum, and you're pretty advanced on social and you need to know what the next stage is, then please get in touch. Email me at paul@duel.tech, that is Paul @ D, U, E, L Dot T, E, C, H or Google Duel dot Tech.
Verity Hurd [00:19:17]:
And I suppose, how have you found the lives in terms of building a deeper connection with your community or your customers?
Marielle Wyse [00:19:24]:
Oh, huge. I mean, because you haven't just got the lives, you've got direct messaging as well. So you've got two things. So you've got. We use direct messaging all the time.
Verity Hurd [00:19:32]:
Okay.
Marielle Wyse [00:19:33]:
For example, I put a top on. If I put a top and I said, should we do this color or this color? That's it. Off they go, answering, you know, and it could be on a poll or it could be on a DM or it could be on comments. Constantly, constantly, constantly. Like for example, I put, we're doing a sample sale. I put, oh, why aren't you doing one in Bath? Why aren't you doing one in York? Why aren't you doing one in Edinburgh? My head is, why aren't you doing one online? It's like, because we can't. Yeah, you know, but, but it's fair point and I'm fair game for it, you know.
Verity Hurd [00:20:04]:
Yeah, well, I mean, that's a big thing, isn't it? Now DMs and this sort of like pride, dark social space. Because I don't know about you, but when I'm sort of even just scrolling socials, I don't really engage that much. But if I see something, I'll probably send it to someone or create a conversation in the DMs and I think that is going to be really interesting to see how it plays out next year and.
Marielle Wyse [00:20:25]:
Oh well, are they changing?
Verity Hurd [00:20:26]:
No, just in terms of like how much that's going to grow.
Marielle Wyse [00:20:29]:
Oh, I see, I see. Yes, yes, yes. I used to reply to all the DMs, obviously. Now I don't. But I keep an eye. I can't suddenly have a quick look.
Verity Hurd [00:20:36]:
Yeah, absolutely. I wanted to ask you about the next phase of WYSE London and I wanted to. In terms of your vision, how do you see it evolving? And this, this could be obviously as a brand as a whole, but also on social, like, you know, obviously Instagram, as we've talked about, is the core platform, but what does that look like outside of Instagram? And what is the next I think.
Marielle Wyse [00:21:00]:
We will potentially open more retail stores. Something we think about, grow in the US also something we think about or actively doing, in fact.
Verity Hurd [00:21:11]:
Oh, wow.
Marielle Wyse [00:21:12]:
Yep. Offer more range of product because we can, we should and must just fine tune what, you know, you constantly learn. Constantly learn and hopefully grow. For me personally, I would like to be able to delegate more efficiently to the team because it's been quite, you know, leading a brand for 10 years has. It's been quite intense, if I'm honest and. Well, quite intense is an understatement. It's been very intense and I've got to a stage in my life where I think, okay, I want to do the nicer bits and I want the team to be able to step up for the other bits. I mean, that's what it's all about, really.
And it has to go that way because I have got only so much, you know, I can give.
Verity Hurd [00:21:58]:
Yeah. And I want to just go back to the US piece because obviously there's a lot of UK brands obviously trying to break out over there. What have been some of your learnings, what's going on in there?
Marielle Wyse [00:22:10]:
They respond very much to when we send brochures. They love that. They love the imagery we provide. I think we've got enormous growth potential there and in terms of what we make as product, we're not really like anybody else. So, you know, that kind of word that I don't really love, but white space. We do have some white space that we can not fill. Yeah. So it's identifying what that is.
So we're constantly looking at what's selling in the US versus what sells in the uk and it's. It's always fascinating. Always fascinating. It's expensive to grow in the us, so. Very expensive.
Verity Hurd [00:22:45]:
I can imagine.
Marielle Wyse [00:22:45]:
So you have to really budget it and know what you're doing because otherwise you can literally throw money at it.
Verity Hurd [00:22:52]:
Yeah.
Marielle Wyse [00:22:52]:
And that's not a good thing to do.
Verity Hurd [00:22:54]:
Yeah. How long. When did you start going into the us?
Marielle Wyse [00:22:57]:
Well, we've had organic growth in the us, but now we're targeting it. It's quite. And some of the members of team have done that before. And so we have a target, you know, a target amount that we're going for and then you sort of budget for the next two or three years.
Verity Hurd [00:23:11]:
Yeah. Are you going over there quite a bit or the team.
Marielle Wyse [00:23:14]:
Well, my son is in New York, actually, so I am going over there, but not for work. But I will do increasingly, as we grow, I. I will start to. I think I'M I'm mindful of getting a shop because even though I'm very tempted, sort of my vanity side is very tempted to get one. They're incredibly expensive and the staffing is incredible. And you'll. And remember, you're in the uk, so you've got a staff that you're running abroad. A shop that you're running abroad, and you can't go and just visit it every five minutes.
Verity Hurd [00:23:47]:
Yeah. I mean, that. There must be some huge complications to that as well. And as you say, going back to how you kind of nurturing your team here, getting that culture piece over there when you are based in New York. Very hard.
Marielle Wyse [00:23:58]:
Very hard. Very hard.
Verity Hurd [00:24:01]:
Okay. I want to just chat about the community.
Marielle Wyse [00:24:03]:
Obviously, you've got a very strong community.
Verity Hurd [00:24:06]:
Yeah. I mean, first of all, tell me a little bit more about the wise London community.
Marielle Wyse [00:24:10]:
Oh, you know, I know that, like so many of the names that pop up, I'm like, oh, hi. Hi. Some of these women I've now met, many of them I have. And actually some friends as well. I've made friends through it. And some of them I've never met, but I know. Exactly. And I almost know their humor as well.
And so, for example, yesterday I was doing a live. And I was talking about something I was watching on Netflix or whatever, an Apple tv. And it was. It's quite raunchy, what I'm watching. It's called the disclaimer. Anyway, that set them off. Then they were just like, oh, have you watched this? And this and this? And I'm just giggling away because I'm trying to show clothes. And they're just talking about, you know, what's going on in these programs.
And I'm. And it just amused me. And I know some of the people that are doing it, and there's a couple that are particularly cheeky. But it's all within the parameters of, you know, of really being funny and engaged and positive. One thing we don't tolerate is negativity. And if we get that, we really shut it down very quickly. Because I won't. I mean, you know, there's.
There's constructive criticism and then there's negativity, and they're very different things.
Verity Hurd [00:25:20]:
And it's. It's so easy to be behind you.
Marielle Wyse [00:25:23]:
And it can really throw you.
Verity Hurd [00:25:24]:
Yeah.
Marielle Wyse [00:25:25]:
When it happens.
Verity Hurd [00:25:26]:
Have you had to deal with that?
Marielle Wyse [00:25:28]:
Yeah. Oh, yeah. And we've had rogues as well in there. And, you know, but then they come in, the community comes in and blocks them. So they then act very Quickly, which you can do, apparently. So, yeah, there's a few weird people that have turned up. Yeah, you're a bit game, aren't you, really?
Verity Hurd [00:25:47]:
It's alive, you know, anyone could get.
Marielle Wyse [00:25:49]:
In, anyone can get in and say some weird stuff. And they had.
Verity Hurd [00:25:52]:
Yeah, I won't ask you.
Marielle Wyse [00:25:54]:
No, don't ask, don't ask.
Verity Hurd [00:25:57]:
What do you think has been the best way that you've nurtured the community?
Marielle Wyse [00:26:01]:
Well, for a start, meeting them in the flesh has been huge. And you know, we do a lot of customer events, so we've got quite a few lined up for December, for November, listening to them on, you know, we sometimes even send them a recorded message. It's really as much engagement as you possibly can. And it's really also just saying sometimes they say, you know, oh, I love this one. And I say, why is that? I don't just take that statement, I say, why did you like that? Because I'm curious to know why you. And I'm also curious to know why you didn't like it. I always say, actually with product, particularly with product, it's all great, the good sellers and everything, but why didn't she like the bad sellers? You know, what is it about that? I find that almost more. More interesting.
Verity Hurd [00:26:50]:
I can imagine you learn more from that.
Marielle Wyse [00:26:52]:
Way more, yeah, way more, yeah, way more.
Verity Hurd [00:26:54]:
That's really nice. But I love the recorded messages, ideas as well.
Marielle Wyse [00:26:57]:
Yeah, it's sweet, right? Yeah, it's nice, yeah.
Verity Hurd [00:27:00]:
Such a simple touch. But yeah, goes a long way. And in terms of creators and partnerships, because obviously we just had a lovely partnership with Deborah Brett. Yeah, yeah.
Marielle Wyse [00:27:10]:
Which has been ongoing.
Verity Hurd [00:27:11]:
Yeah, yeah. What is the. How do you kind of identify either creators or partnerships?
Marielle Wyse [00:27:16]:
I think it's women that are sort of like minded and that are stylish, love clothes, maybe have a different DNA to us. I try not to look for a replica because that doesn't then work or we don't need it really. But somebody who has a slightly different handwriting to us and pushes us out of our comfort zone as well. I think that's a really good way. And Deborah's got a fantastic personal handwriting and actually wardrobe, come to that. Yeah, an extraordinary wardrobe and she, she, she makes some beautiful things.
Verity Hurd [00:27:49]:
Beautiful, yeah, it's beautiful. Is a beautiful, beautiful partnership. And how do you, I suppose with creators then, different to the partnerships, do you. What, what's your creator strategy or the influencer piece?
Marielle Wyse [00:28:02]:
We work a little bit with them and we, we have some creator. I have some very old friends from the Way back when the brand was very small and we work with still we haven't got a huge creator. I mean, it's something we are looking at to. Because it is quite successful for us when we do it. We're so organic in many ways that we've sort of almost created ourselves as our own ambassadors. So the other people that come along just reach a different audience. It's something we are looking at evolving and using more. Definitely.
Verity Hurd [00:28:39]:
But I mean, it's incredible that you've got such an organic sort of advocates in its way.
Marielle Wyse [00:28:45]:
Yeah, we do, but it has its limitations. So you have to. In order to grow the brand, you have to find other ways to get other people's attention that wouldn't normally see you.
Verity Hurd [00:28:55]:
Absolutely, yeah. And I think this is one thing that a lot of brands don't sort of dig into, the kind of the opportunities that they've got with all these different pools of network within their brand. Well, their brand network, I suppose.
Marielle Wyse [00:29:08]:
Yeah. And also, you've got to make it again the right partnership and the right person that you're working with that feels good for the brand and that represent, you know, otherwise. Sometimes I just look at stuff, I'm like, that's not true. You know, that doesn't ring true. And I've slightly lost interest a little bit because of that. So it has to be a good relationship as well.
Verity Hurd [00:29:31]:
Yeah. Okay. Your founding story.
Marielle Wyse [00:29:33]:
Oh, yes.
Verity Hurd [00:29:34]:
On the website it says it started with a rainbow, but it did well.
Marielle Wyse [00:29:38]:
And a star. Actually thinking about it. Cause I remember going down Shepherd's Bush market with a. Looking for some leather and trying to cut it out myself to put leather star elbow pads on. And I got the scissors out and I remember it, I couldn't cut and it was such a mess. And then for some reason, somebody said, you got to get them laser cut. I was like, what the hell's laser cut? So anyway, then I'm, you know, rushing to get to a laser cut. It was all started with five cashmere jumpers.
One had a star on it, one had a rainbow on it.
Verity Hurd [00:30:09]:
Oh, lovely. Okay, so. And then you said that you've obviously been in the TV industry. And I mean, you started WYSE London when you were 49 as well. So. So yeah, I'd love to just find out a little bit more about your background.
Marielle Wyse [00:30:20]:
And so I have. So basically the long, the short story is that I. I had a successful career in television directing, producing, and I was traveling a lot and I had one child carried on traveling, second child, couldn't travel Anymore. And it was a lot of traveling. So that put an end to that career literally overnight. And I was a stay at home mum for about eight years. And then I was getting really. Now I look back, I was bored, very bored, and I wanted to do something, but I didn't quite know what I could do.
And so I had a very dear friend who I still have who said, you know, you, you, you love, you've always given me. She, she made cashmere scarves. You always got ideas. She said, what's your idea? I said, well, I always want to get a cashmere jumper that's got this and that detail on it at this price, but I can't find it. She said, well, here's a factory you do. So I went, oh, okay. So I made five jumpers. And then we started selling in direct, you know, retail fairs and school fairs and things like that.
And it grew from there.
Verity Hurd [00:31:22]:
That's incredible.
Marielle Wyse [00:31:23]:
I had no idea that I was starting a business. I just sort of gave it a shot.
Verity Hurd [00:31:27]:
Yeah. What has been sort of your biggest personal, I suppose, growth moment in the last 10 years?
Marielle Wyse [00:31:36]:
I think the early days really, I mean, Covid was. There were two that I can think of that are pivotal. One was the first. So I did Spirit of Christmas, which is a fair at Olympia. It's a kind of direct consumer fair. And it was. And I did it in the summer before and it was quite busy. And I thought, oh, this is going to be really interesting with cashmere jumpers.
And I remember we were mobbed. I had the tiniest stand. We were mobbed. And all of a sudden I've got this money coming into the business. You know, I've got a pot of cash because I've outlaid it a little bit. But I've got a lot more to go into the business. And I'm thinking, what the hell's just gone on? And there's a picture of me just scratching my head outside the stand. I had no.
I was just so confused. I mean, it was amazing. And I was just thrilled. And then that was, that was the first big memory. And the second was during COVID where it just shot up and the business just flew. And again, it was not a dissimilar feeling of like, oh my God, you know, this just is working, this makes sense. And sometimes I think when you're a founder, what you have to do is try things that you just think are a bit mad, but why wouldn't you kind of thing, as long as you're not doing something foolhardy or risky or disrespectful or whatever it is. And, and it's within the confines of financial sense, you know, you haven't got so much to lose.
Verity Hurd [00:32:59]:
Yeah.
Marielle Wyse [00:33:00]:
And both those times when I've done that, have they paid off?
Verity Hurd [00:33:03]:
Yeah. Interesting. I mean, there's such a big piece now, like this cultural piece now where even we interviewed the CMO from Beekman and he was saying that they have a very big culture of like failure because that's, that's, you know, and I think we are in an era now where we can and really go for failure in a way to learn.
Marielle Wyse [00:33:24]:
Failure is such an interesting subject, isn't it? And I think about it so much because I have failed so many times. Everyone says, oh, you know, you grow from failure and you do. It's not easy to fail. It hurts. And you know what? It still hurts to this day. And do I take it personally? Of course I do. I do. I'm like, why not? Not always, by the way.
Sometimes I'm like, yeah, I'm not surprised. But you do learn so much.
Verity Hurd [00:33:52]:
Of course you do. Of course you do. Yeah. And I have to ask, obviously on the Building Brand Advocacy podcast, what do most brands get wrong when it comes to brand advocacy?
Marielle Wyse [00:34:03]:
One thing that I think that people can do more is seize opportunity. One thing I think I've learned from our brand is the ability to pivot very quickly to different. Because the marketplace is so uncertain and so tricky. I think if you stick into too much of a structured path, you don't allow yourself to pivot as much as you potentially need to. Depends on the size of your brand. But even so, big brands should be able to pivot really in order to respond to the customer needs. I think it's the only way to stay healthy. So I think to be too single minded and not open is not for me, it's not the way forward.
Verity Hurd [00:34:52]:
I love that. I really love that. And I think it really shows the brands that are growing today versus the ones that don't have that mentality. You can really see the ones that are standing out.
Marielle Wyse [00:35:04]:
I think it is a very different marketplace out there. But I mean, you know, I listen, I. The algorithm of Instagram is very, very clever and I get fed all these things and even like Apple operate, you know, in very much a way like a startup.
Verity Hurd [00:35:19]:
Yeah.
Marielle Wyse [00:35:19]:
And I think that, that, you know, they probably. They fail, don't they? They failed loads. I mean, those headphones that my daughter's got, they don't work very well. That's a fail. That's not great, is it?
Verity Hurd [00:35:31]:
You know, Absolutely not. Where can our audience find you, Maria?
Marielle Wyse [00:35:36]:
So we're on Wyselondon.com and we've got two stores, three stores, one in Southwold, one which is in Suffolk, one on Marybourne High street, and one in the King's Road.
Verity Hurd [00:35:47]:
I remembered what I was going to say to you before, and it was someone said, open a store or do a sample sale in York. And I was like, yes, please do one in York, because that's where I live.
Marielle Wyse [00:35:56]:
Okay, York it is, then. York will be number two. Okay, It's a deal.
Verity Hurd [00:36:01]:
Awesome. Thank you so much. That was a lovely time.
Marielle Wyse [00:36:03]:
Thank you. Thank you for having me. Verity, welcome.
Paul Archer [00:36:07]:
That was another episode of Building Brand Advocacy, the world's top brand building podcast. To find out more about Building Brand Advocacy and how this podcast is part of a bigger plan for our brand building cookbook, then make sure to search for Building Brand Advocacy in Apple podcasts, Spotify, Google Podcasts, or anywhere else that podcasts are fine. And make sure that you click subscribe so you don't miss any future episodes. Thanks to Duel for sponsoring. To find out more, go to www.duel.tech. That's D U E L dot T E C H and on behalf of the team here at Building Brand Advocacy, thanks for listening.
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