Sarah Hrywnak [00:00:00]:
I think customers don't just want to feel like that transactional consumer anymore. They want to feel like they're a part of a brand's journey and story. We rebranded our loyalty programme this year to Club A & M and so everyone gets lots of different perks. We send them handwritten so someone in my team actually hand writes birthday cards to them when it gets their birthday. And just these personal touches that kind of brings more to life.
Verity Hurd [00:00:27]:
It goes so much further.
Sarah Hrywnak [00:00:29]:
And we want to protect that as much as we grow and, you know, get busy. Like, we want to make sure that we always bring that personal element and touch to customers. So that will be definitely a big focus.
Paul Archer [00:00:52]:
Have you ever wondered why some brands grow exponentially, building legions of passionate fans that live and die by their logos and some, well, don't? I do, all the time. And that's probably because I'm a massive brand nerd. But I believe there's a secret sauce at the core of every remarkable brand. A formula that sparks the growth of passionate communities, of superfans, building a business and a reputation that will last for years to come.
In this podcast, we tap into the greatest marketing minds in the world as they share the exact tactics and strategies used to build the world's greatest brands. Dropping actionable insights every brand builder can apply.
My name is Paul Archer and I'm a specialist in Brand Advocacy and word-of-mouth. Having consulted for hundreds of brands on the topic. Co-hosting with me is the wonderful Verity Hurd, expert on the bleeding edge of social media.
It's time to learn and build Brand Advocacy.
Verity Hurd [00:01:48]:
Hello and welcome to Building Brand Advocacy. Today I am joined by the incredible Sarah, who is the Chief Marketing Officer of one of the most iconic jewellery brands, Astrid & Miyu. Welcome, Sarah.
Sarah Hrywnak [00:02:00]:
Thanks for having me.
Verity Hurd [00:02:01]:
You're welcome. Obviously, that's an incredible journey and I really want to touch on that. But first I wanted to delve into something that you guys did earlier this year, which was the House of Astrodomiyu, which obviously really brought your brand network to the forefront. What inspired the creation of that?
Sarah Hrywnak [00:02:21]:
Going back a couple of years, we did this 10 times thinking workshop as a leadership team. So we do this often with teams and it gets people thinking outside of the box.
Verity Hurd [00:02:32]:
Yeah.
Sarah Hrywnak [00:02:32]:
Oh, I love that. One of our values is breaking boundaries. So it's like making sure that we're constantly innovating. And in that session we had the idea of doing a big concept store flagship. So retail is such an important part of the brand and our ethos and this is kind of where House of It Astrademu came about. So one of our pillars in retail is home from home. And so making sure that when you step inside our store, you feel like there's a piece of home and it all feels very, like, authentic and comfortable. So House of Astrid & Miyu turned into home.
Verity Hurd [00:03:16]:
Yeah.
Sarah Hrywnak [00:03:18]:
And it's just a totally different space to our stores. We want people to come in and, like, really immerse themselves into it. Experiential retail is a huge part. Like, obviously we've. We've done our services now for six, seven years, but this is. Yeah. So much more. So.
Yeah. And then fast forward two years, we found the perfect space. It was, I think, eight months in the making and then launched in August, which was really exciting.
Verity Hurd [00:03:52]:
Yeah, it looked incredible. Looks incredible, I suppose. How does that whole concept. How does home.
Sarah Hrywnak [00:04:02]:
Yeah. Live it?
Verity Hurd [00:04:03]:
Like, obviously you've just mentioned there about the brand's core values. Like, I'd love to just kind of, like, dig into that a little bit more. Like, how does it really kind of get into those values?
Sarah Hrywnak [00:04:11]:
As a brand, our main values are shine together, breaking boundaries and making memories. And this is throughout everything we do internally, externally, and this just encapsulates everything to do with that. So basically this space, so it's across two floors and the idea is that the bottom floor is very much about, like, playful energy, fun. And there's a massive orb which is in the centre of the store, which also emulates different weathers at different times. So it's like a piece of. Cause we're a global brand, so it's a piece of like New York and LA or Dubai that you can kind of create in the space. And then you go upstairs and again, a play on energy where it's really calm and tranquil. We've got our cafe, but it's a really lovely space that on Carnaby Street.
Like, it's mental, but you go upstairs and it's like that one piece of calm that you need to kind of break up your day. And then we have different studios which lean into different elements. So within the brand, we talk a lot about, like, astrological elements and cosmic references and like, I guess that bigger picture universe. And that's really at the heart of a lot of the campaigns and the products and everything we do. So I guess that's what's centred around home versus our typical stores, that. I guess it's a piece of that. But this is like the full.
Verity Hurd [00:06:01]:
The whole astrological piece. Is that something that Connie is really into Is that where that comes from?
Sarah Hrywnak [00:06:07]:
Yeah, I think it's something that we've all grown really fond of over the years and it's naturally evolved over time. We all have co star do our little charts and we talk about our rising star and obviously Zodiacs is a big programme for us and yeah, so it's kind of something that's naturally evolved over the last 12 years. I guess we're all very interested in that. We all have co star, we kind of play around with it, we talk a lot about our star signs, our rising stars, but because our community and customers love it too. And it's something that then it's kind of naturally evolved with the campaigns and everything that we kind of talk to and it really touches on that deeper level of connection versus I think it just gives more substance. So we did actually a whole business wide training a few weeks ago around your rising star and how to talk to someone.
Verity Hurd [00:07:12]:
Can I come to the next one?
Sarah Hrywnak [00:07:14]:
Yes. It was really fun, really nice and it's a really good way to get our internal teams really like to buy into that and then when they talk to customers, they can also help educate them and it's a great talking point. And yeah, with the store we have the orb, which is the fire element, and then each studio is earth, air fire and kind of where you feel the most comfortable and where, you know, you might really resonate with earth. And that's where you want to get your piercing or your tattoo. So again, it taps into that deeper connection with customers. Oh, I love that.
Verity Hurd [00:07:51]:
I have been looking at coming in.
Sarah Hrywnak [00:07:52]:
To get a tattoo you should definitely do come to the least I know I should do.
Verity Hurd [00:07:57]:
Really.
Sarah Hrywnak [00:07:58]:
Yeah.
Verity Hurd [00:07:58]:
So just going back to the role of experiential marketing and obviously we've seen quite a lot of brands getting into that this year. For you guys, how do you think this type of marketing really plays into brand advocacy?
Sarah Hrywnak [00:08:11]:
Yeah, it's always been, again, really important for us. So we were online only brand for a long time, but we always did pop ups and we did different activations and I think to really tap into that emotional connection and again that deeper relationship with customers you have, they thrive in person connections like I thrive when I'm face to face with someone and that human connection. So it's so important and I think there's only so much you can do to get the brand's ethos and values across digitally or virtually the you can do in person and you can have proper conversations with them and really understand what they think and feel to the Brand and this is where like yeah, our services evolved. So we started with piercing parties almost seven years ago now. And then that just naturally evolved because that's what the customer wanted and that's what they like gave them that boost. And then tattoos followed and then welding. As a brand it's really important to get the customer, customer in person and to understand like how they want to connect and how they want to interact. We've always done loads of different events and all of our stores have spaces to have different events and networking or focus groups and stuff.
So it's yeah, a really important part of building that brand advocacy and brand building piece.
Verity Hurd [00:09:40]:
Yeah, I mean it's so interesting because like as soon as we kind of delve into, as soon as we start talking about brand advocacy with like all of our guests, like the first thing they say is it's just that two way dialogue. It's having that conversation and creating a space to have it. And it's interesting what you say about just doing it in person, like even recording this podcast. It makes such a difference when you're face to face, you know, compared to sort of doing it online. So it does make complete sense. What's the reaction been then? What, what are the customers saying to.
Sarah Hrywnak [00:10:09]:
It's been incredible actually. So we put a lot of money into it from a marketing perspective because we wanted it to land with customers, how we felt about it. So there was a lot of buildup, a lot of anticipation and kind of dropping in that home caused that intrigue. But on the morning of opening, people were queuing from like six very crazy but amazing and they were queuing like right down the street. Connie was there talking to them and really hearing their story of how they've become a astronomy customer. Some of them have been with us from the beginning. Some of them had travelled to come as well, which was amazing. So that was a big highlight.
But I think it's hearing people's thoughts and like we've had some amazing write ups, organic reviews of what people have felt when going into the store, which is exactly what we wanted to achieve. And I think that you can't, you can't fake it, you can't copy it and it's quite hard to get it across that emotional feeling. But it's been amazing to like hear people's thoughts and like that they actually did feel that too when going into the store versus our other stores, which is quite hard to do.
Verity Hurd [00:11:34]:
But yeah, yeah, absolutely. A big moment you mentioned there about, obviously it was a big spend, big budget, I mean I'm sure there's lots of people that would want to know like was there much pushback? Like how did you get that sign off? But I suppose the bigger question is that sort of like how do you balance the commercial objectives with the more like what you just said, like that more emotional, that connection piece like, you know, are you so lucky that everyone is bought into that? Just like, yes, let's go for it. Or have you experienced any.
Sarah Hrywnak [00:12:03]:
I think one, I am probably quite lucky because I've been there from the beginning. Connie, the founder like understands how important brand is. We're both very much that minded. So that helps. Obviously. Yeah, you've got your finance pushback in your coo, but they fully understand the value and they understand how it takes time to build that brand momentum and if you don't have that, the commercial won't follow. So I think in terms of this and spending more and having a bigger focus because it went deeper than just commercial and just that revenue, obviously it needs to make money and we have all of those KPIs and that's kind of separate. But everyone was really brought into that brand building piece and knew what those objectives were.
So it's yeah, customer feedback. The UGC Q was a big one. Right. Making sure that we build that momentum, seeing the reaction and having like. So we did quite a few events and having them sell out and people come and travel, that was so much more important because the commercial will follow and it has because the brand piece was there. Whereas when we've done other things in the past where the brand piece hasn't quite been there or the awareness. Yes, maybe to be the short term gain is high but the long term isn't. So I think it does take time to get people to understand that I am lucky because the brand was born on that.
But you just really need to understand the importance of brand building versus those quick wing wins.
Verity Hurd [00:13:47]:
Would you have any advice for anyone that's kind of struggling in kind of getting that buy in from the CFOs.
Sarah Hrywnak [00:13:53]:
Be that best friend. Yeah, I think you really have to sell into them what the vision is and what that long term is. And I think if they see some KPIs and some movement then they're okay and understand what the buyback period is as well. It's not just two months and you break even or make money six to 12 months and also you don't do this with everything. So I'm like strategic in my budgeting approach. So quite a lot of campaigns will be more thrifty. But something like this took us to the next step. The idea is that hopefully we'll have more and we'll obviously go global.
So it's like the first step into that. So buying them into that vision by, like, getting them along in terms of.
Verity Hurd [00:14:50]:
Like, the lessons that you've learned from cultivating, like such an authentic community space, like through activations like home, like, what would you say the lessons are and what can other brands learn from it?
Sarah Hrywnak [00:15:01]:
Yeah, so a big one with this is, I would say about eight months before the project start, before the project went live, we did several focus groups internally with everybody. Everyone in the company knew what we wanted to achieve. They fully understood the vision and they fully backed it. And sometimes you don't really get that. And if you don't get everyone's buy in, then you're not gonna have the same effect. So that was a big lesson learned and something I would definitely do for big campaigns going forward. And then being very clear, okay, these are the key objectives, but then also making sure every single person played a part in the campaign at some point. So even like other retail stores who technically, you know, wouldn't even come to home, still felt they played a part because they were helping in other ways and they really understood.
So the whole team was backing it, which then meant everybody would back it and really believed in it. And if you can't get your employees to believe in it, you're not gonna get your cur community or customers to believe in it. So that was a big one. And then another one was that we wanted to treat, I guess this is a growing trend at the moment where you want, you need to treat your consumer community exactly the same as your influencer community. And we wanted to make sure that we did that with this. So we were doing a big press and influencer event where we got quite a lot of complimentary things for them, but we did exactly the same for our customers. And we invited our VIP customers and the reaction was so nice to give back to them. And it sold out within like a few, I think, like five minutes.
Verity Hurd [00:16:55]:
Oh, wow.
Sarah Hrywnak [00:16:55]:
People travel down the country to come.
Verity Hurd [00:16:59]:
Yeah.
Sarah Hrywnak [00:16:59]:
And like celebrate with us and doing more of these things and like events just for customers versus always treating influencers was much more powerful for this. So, yeah, this is something that, I mean, we've always kind of done, but we did even more for this and we'll continue.
Verity Hurd [00:17:18]:
Yeah. I think there's just saying about it being a bit of a trend. I just think there's going to be a bit more of a blur I think over the next few years between influencer customers, creators, I mean, I mean never fully dressed. So I say their customers are their influencers and I think yeah, that's just going to become more apparent.
Sarah Hrywnak [00:17:40]:
Yeah. And they're so important. Like they actually do so much more in being brand ambassadors than paid for influencers. And they really love the brand and they're the ones that would tell their friends and family and bring them along and feel more valued versus I guess influencers or press who get freebies all the time and it's just a job for them. Whereas this is deeper than that.
Verity Hurd [00:18:09]:
Yeah, absolutely, yeah. And then in terms of obviously over the last 12 years, what's been the standout campaign during that whole time?
Sarah Hrywnak [00:18:19]:
I mean Home definitely is, I think because it was such a pivotal moment. There's been loads of other campaigns in the past that's kind of taken us to the next step. So just before COVID we did a pop up in New York which was a big test for us. We, you know, had a small pocket of customers in New York but we'd never taken the brand overseas. I went over with three other of my team, we did this tiny little pop up but the reaction was amazing. Like people were queuing down the street. Everyone loved the brand and kept asking when are we coming back? And to see the reaction outside of London, cause we weren't really outside of London at that point was gave us that boost. So I think each year had small campaigns that kind of took us to the next step, gave us that confidence boost or took the brand deeper or kind of built our community wider.
But I mean Home was the biggest one really.
Verity Hurd [00:19:23]:
What does then, what does the US market look like for you guys now?
Sarah Hrywnak [00:19:26]:
So we have a store in New York, West Village. We have quite big plans the next couple of years. I don't know how much I could say but us is a huge focus and the appetite there is strong. Obviously it's difficult when you're trying to build a brand overseas and having that culture is so important to us and making sure that they have the same culture there as we do here. The People Experience team do an incredible job to really cultivate our culture internally. So that's just one thing. But yeah, big plans for the year.
Verity Hurd [00:20:09]:
Exciting. And then so from assistant to cmo and it's an iconic brand so it is a real. We were talking about this earlier. Like it's kind of like you should be that guy from Nike that is from like intern to CMO. Like, you have a LinkedIn career worthy post right there.
Sarah Hrywnak [00:20:31]:
Thank you.
Verity Hurd [00:20:33]:
I mean, just give us a little bit of a snapshot of that journey if you can.
Sarah Hrywnak [00:20:37]:
It's quite crazy actually. It's a bit of a whirlwind and it's quite hard. Like I just forget because you live in the moment and so much happens and I still find it crazy how much people love the, I mean it's amazing. Love the brand, but like I remember the days that no one knew who we were and obviously again being in Leeds, like no one outside of London really knew what Astrid and me was. So it's, it's been a huge journey, but it's been incredible, like to be able to work with so many talented people now, like so many people that want to come and work for the brand. And my role evolution has been crazy. And obviously you're going through one maternity, currently pregnant, but do my second and just keeping up with that fast pace. Like I am.
I'm good with change and I like being agile and kind of having new things, but not everyone does. So it's kind of keeping that alive throughout the team and it's crazy. Yeah, it's hard to remember everything that we've gone through.
Verity Hurd [00:21:46]:
I can imagine. But really inspiring and obviously, you know, we've got listeners that you know from, from sort of like, you know, just starting out to founders, you know, so it's really inspiring that there's, there's. That. That's there and that you can do it. Just looking at the actual, like your actual role right now, like Chief Marketing Officer, what do you think is like one of the most significant challenges that your role is facing in like such a fast evolving retail landscape?
Sarah Hrywnak [00:22:15]:
Yeah, I guess I don't have experience anywhere else. It's hard to know what CMOs. Yeah. Have to deal with outside of this brand, but I guess from my view is that you're, you're not just looking at marketing, obviously you need to look at everything and you're quite removed from it and you need to look at like how everything impacts that wider business and being really agile and really agile with like things that are so out of your control, which is quite hard in a landscape that over five years has changed so much. And especially in marketing, like, as you know, trends come and go so quickly. Like channels come and go so quickly. It's quite hard. But I think it's like making sure you stay like innovative and agile and try new things but don't lose sight of your core values.
And what your brand stands for and what you're trying to achieve, because then you can just get so sidetracked and I guess budgets, like, as a brand and a business grows, your budgets change, but not being too impacted by that. So still staying really nimble because anything can happen and you might have to pull back or you push forward or just being able to be reactive, which I guess in a changing landscape is hard, but.
Verity Hurd [00:23:48]:
No, but I think what you said about staying true to your core values, I think that is so important and one that a lot of brands can probably get caught up in and it is really that purpose led that will steer you in the right direction consistently. So.
Sarah Hrywnak [00:24:07]:
Yeah, yeah, definitely. Yeah. We've always had such a strong. I guess, yeah. Our mission is to revolutionise the jury experience and that's always been at the heart of everything. Whereas if you lose what your key mission is. Yeah, it's quite easy to get derailed and everyone's seen it happen to.
Verity Hurd [00:24:27]:
You've mentioned about staying really innovative and agile. What do you think? What are you gonna be doing to stay ahead of the competition? Cause it's so noisy and like you said, even just staying up with trends and updates and all of that stuff.
Sarah Hrywnak [00:24:41]:
Yeah. I guess in our space in particular, it's very noisy now and it wasn't 10 years ago. What we've always done is try and like I said, we're very clear in our mission and our values and what we want to achieve and not let. And staying in our own lane. So. Yeah, seeing what. I guess keeping an eye on what competitors are doing, looking at different industries, like beauty industries. Yeah.
Verity Hurd [00:25:08]:
They always seem to be one step ahead of everybody else.
Sarah Hrywnak [00:25:10]:
Yeah. Yeah, they do. But not being sidetracked by that. Like we know what we want to achieve and we have, you know, we do. Yeah. 10 times thinking workshops quite often and really want to break that mould and those boundaries and do things differently and not thinking, oh, someone else is doing this, let's kind of go down that path. So, yeah, staying in our own lane versus kind of jumping on trends too much.
Verity Hurd [00:25:44]:
I think that's going to be a trend that trends no longer will be trends.
Sarah Hrywnak [00:25:48]:
Yeah.
Verity Hurd [00:25:49]:
Because they're not, are they? They're not anymore.
Sarah Hrywnak [00:25:51]:
You met your own trend. Exactly.
Verity Hurd [00:25:53]:
And then if we look at consumer shifts and what. How they're reshaping, how do you think that will impact your marketing strategy over the next couple of years?
Sarah Hrywnak [00:26:03]:
So I think, I guess we've touched upon it previously. Like customers want to go deeper with brands and feel really valued. That's always been a part of our strategy and I think it will just become even more important to build that cultivating community. And I guess you have communities within that that we talk to and different customer groups, but I think it will just mean that it will be more of a forefront in our strategies going forward. So, for example, like tonight we're hosting an intimate dinner in London with 15 of our VIP customers. Connie is hosting. They're all getting treated. It's all around their cosmic rising star and just giving back and saying thank you to them.
Sarah Hrywnak [00:26:52]:
We want to do so many more of these things and have, like, yeah, focus groups where we actually chat to our customers and they have an input as well. And I think customers don't just want to feel like that transactional consumer anymore, they want to feel like they're a part of a brand's journey and story. We relaunched. Well, we didn't relaunch. We rebranded our loyalty programme this year to Club A and M. And so everyone gets lots of different picks. We send them handwritten. So someone in my team actually hand writes birthday cards to them.
Verity Hurd [00:27:27]:
Oh, so lovely.
Sarah Hrywnak [00:27:28]:
When it gets their birthday. And just these personal touches that kind of brings more to life.
Verity Hurd [00:27:35]:
It goes so much further.
Sarah Hrywnak [00:27:36]:
Yeah, yeah. And we want to protect that as much as we grow and, you know, get busy. Like, we want to make sure that we always bring that personal element and touch to customers. So, yeah, that will be definitely a big focus.
Verity Hurd [00:27:50]:
And what does brand advocacy mean to you, like, personally?
Sarah Hrywnak [00:27:54]:
Yeah, so it's so important. I'm like a brand marketing person, so that's what the brand's also been built on for the last 12 years. But personally, like, if. If I feel like a brand isn't quite authentic or if I don't really trust them or don't really agree with their values, then I'll easily go elsewhere. Like, we're fickle. We are now. So fickle now. But also you do want to feel emotionally connected and kind of aligned with what the brands are trying to do and their youth and values.
So it's really important to me as a customer. Which means that, yeah, it's so important when you're trying to build a brand to also, I am our customer.
Verity Hurd [00:28:48]:
So just on that, I think there's brands that I talk about but haven't really shopped with because of that connection. And it. It might. It's not just through the product, it might be. And I don't know whether it's because obviously I'm in the marketing Space or, you know, or just. I don't know. But if I do feel that I will still talk about brands around the. Around the dinner table or, you know, have those conversations about brands that I haven't even bought from.
Sarah Hrywnak [00:29:15]:
That's so true, actually. And actually that's even more powerful because you've got someone talking about your brand that actually never has bought from you before, but you're promoting it because you actually care and you feel aligned to their values. What they talk about again, which goes deeper. So you'll probably remember those brands longer than maybe some that you have bought from.
Verity Hurd [00:29:39]:
The ones that you just see like on TikTok, and you're like, oh, okay, let's try that. I've just done it just before coming in here.
Sarah Hrywnak [00:29:44]:
Oh, really?
Verity Hurd [00:29:45]:
What did you get? It was this hair product and one of my favourite creators on TikTok, and I just find her so funny and so, like, relatable that she was just trying out this hair product and I'm straight in my basket. TikTok shop.
Sarah Hrywnak [00:29:57]:
Yeah, it is quite easy, isn't it? It's so easy.
Verity Hurd [00:30:01]:
You've already shared, like, a couple of examples. But what do you think are the standout examples that have really turned, like, customers into advocates for you?
Sarah Hrywnak [00:30:11]:
Yeah, I guess those ones that keep coming back to the same events. So we have got quite a few, not quite a nice pool of customers who will keep coming back every year when we have different store events, which, yeah, means so much more because they obviously really enjoy and they come on their own and then they make friends with other people in the stores, I think. Yeah, those people who we can see actively talking about the brand and also, you know, having conversations with customers on our, like, social posts and, and things like that. So they're actually going for. They're answering for us, which, you know, is amazing. And it shows that they are advocating for the brand. Yeah, I guess it's just those social interactions and conversations. And again, in person, when you see people coming back and talking about like, oh, I met you five years ago and you were doing this.
But then they come back with, like, their kids or their families or friends, and they've been along that journey with us, which is, yeah, incredible to see, I suppose.
Verity Hurd [00:31:26]:
Do you measure that? Do you measure brand advocacy? Like, is it possible.
Sarah Hrywnak [00:31:33]:
In a way there could be more that we could do? We do monitor, like, our NPS score. We do customer surveys at different touch points. We don't want to go too much into hounding our customers, but we do that, like, ugc and bits on social. But I think there's actually so much more that we can do and we get more on from a retail perspective. So I want to be able to like piece the retail kind of conversations and anecdotal things in with the online, which is a bit easier to track and like customer lifetime value and our loyalty programme stats and things like that, but it's harder.
Verity Hurd [00:32:18]:
Yeah, yeah, I'm on a mission.
Sarah Hrywnak [00:32:20]:
Yeah, we'll. We'll do it.
Verity Hurd [00:32:22]:
And finally, what. What do you think? One mistake is that you see brands doing that they get wrong when trying to build brand advocacy.
Sarah Hrywnak [00:32:32]:
I think when you see brands, I guess, not really having clear values or a clear mission or they do and then they change or they.
Verity Hurd [00:32:44]:
They say they've got it, but they're just actually just words.
Sarah Hrywnak [00:32:47]:
Yeah. And they try to copy others out there and it's quite obvious and it just all becomes very blurred and a bit messy. They lose themselves and you lose that trust, which I think can quite easily happen if, again, if you don't stay in your own lane and if you're not too influenced by the things that are happening. So, yeah, I guess brands not staying true to what they actually believe in and what they want to achieve.
Verity Hurd [00:33:16]:
Great point. Love it. Thank you so much. This has been awesome. Thank you so much.
Sarah Hrywnak [00:33:21]:
Thank you for having me.
Verity Hurd [00:33:22]:
And where can people find you, Sarah?
Sarah Hrywnak [00:33:24]:
Yeah, you can find me on LinkedIn or. Yeah, follow Astrid & Miyu on TikTok, Instagram, LinkedIn. We're everywhere. Yeah, awesome.
Verity Hurd [00:33:36]:
Thank you.
Paul Archer [00:33:39]:
That was another episode of Building Brand Advocacy, the world's top brand building podcast. To find out more about Building Brand Advocacy and how this podcast is part of a bigger plan for our brand building cookbook, then make sure to search for Building Brand Advocacy in Apple podcasts, Spotify, Google Podcasts, or anywhere else that podcasts are fine. And make sure that you click subscribe so you don't miss any future episodes. Thanks to Duel for sponsoring. To find out more, go to www.duel.tech. That's D U E L dot T E C H and on behalf of the team here at Building Brand Advocacy, thanks for listening.
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