Francesca Kelly:
I know it sounds crazy, but we do go on trust and friendships and word like, that's how we work. Since then we have had some contacts with other people and it has been a bit more corporate in some instances. And then we'll know what we prefer and what we don't as well. If it's in the contract, it's gonna happen, it's gonna be done. But I kind of feel like when things are set in stone, there's gonna be this amount of posts, there's gonna be this amount of stories. I don't actually feel that's not what the love and the joy and the sales and that success comes from. The success comes from the fact, see, that this person who's designed this collection loves the collection that they've designed and they're passionate about it and they're wearing it anyway. And we're wearing it too.
Paul Archer:
Have you ever wondered why some brands grow exponentially, building legions of passionate fans that live and die by their logos and some, well, don't. I do all the time, and that's probably because I'm a massive brand nerd. But I believe there's a secret sauce at the core of every remarkable brand. A formula that sparks the growth of passionate communities of superfans, building a business and a reputation that will last for years to come. My name is Paul Archer and I'm a specialist in Brand Advocacy and word of mouth, having consulted for hundreds of brands on a topic.
Verity Hurd:
Hey, it's Verity here, your co-host of the Building Brand Advocacy podcast.
Paul Archer:
In this podcast we tap into the greatest marketing minds in the world today, share the exact tactics and strategies used to build the world's greatest brands. Dropping actionable insights every brand builder can apply.
Verity Hurd:
We've got some incredible guests coming up, sharing insights and tips that can truly shift the marketing landscape. If you want to be the first to hear, make sure you hit that follow button. The more people following the show, the bigger and better we can make it. So if you're loving what you hear, don't forget to follow and spread the word. Thanks again for listening. It really means a lot. I hope you enjoy this next episode.
Paul Archer:
It's time to learn and Build Brand Advocacy.
Verity Hurd:
Hi and welcome to Building Brand Advocacy. I am super excited today because I am joined by the founder of one of the most beautiful jewellery brands out there, Soru Jewellery. Welcome, Francesca.
Francesca Kelly:
Thank you. Hello, nice to be here.
Verity Hurd:
There's loads to talk about today from your focuses for the year ahead and being the face of the brand. But of course, advocacy. But I Want to start with some of the collaborations because I think that's how I actually found you, like years ago, through a collaboration that you did with a creator and you've partnered with some really high profile creators. So I wanted to like dig into that. And just how do you ensure that these collaborations not only elevate the brand aesthetically but also amplifies your story and your brand values?
Francesca Kelly:
Yeah, well, everyone that we've done, we've done some amazing collaborations and everyone that we've done a collaboration with, it's really come about very organically. So they're people that have always worn Sorrow anyway. They've been wearing us in their day to day lives. We've kind of started a friendship together. So because of that I feel that, I mean, and these are people as well that I think it's important that I, you know, they inspired me. So if they're inspiring me and I like to follow them and see what they're doing, then I know that probably our customer is too. And they're all already wearing Sorrow in their day to day lives. So their customer is probably going to be interested in us.
So it kind of naturally. That's, that's how it.
Verity Hurd:
Yeah. Happened really organically. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Best way. And so you kind of found. So you're saying that most of them have been customers before and then just through social media?
Francesca Kelly:
Yeah, yeah, yeah, it is through social media. I mean the first, first collaboration that we had lasted for four years and we did five collections with the fashion book blog, Laura Will. So that was the first collaboration that we'd ever done and it was so successful and it was so lovely. It was literally like working with a friend and, and it, and really that's what it was. It was, there was no, it was not corporate at all. It was like working with a friend. We, we all enjoyed creating the collections together. She was wearing them organically.
We were wearing them organically which promoting them just naturally. And it just. Both of our audiences kind of.
Verity Hurd:
Yeah.
Francesca Kelly:
Resonated.
Verity Hurd:
And I think that's the one that I found you through because I remember seeing loads of stories and like there was a certain earring. I wish I could describe it now, but it was a few years ago and yeah, that's definitely how I found you. It just seemed to be everywhere. Yeah, we still are.
Francesca Kelly:
But I mean we. She was really into Rainbow before Rainbow got really, really big. So it was all through the COVID era as well. We'd done a whole collection with her that was Rainbow and then Covid Kind of hit. So it was all. It did go quite like it was everywhere, all over social media. But before that, our collections had been great together as well. So, yeah, I mean, and then the second collaboration that we did after that was with Ariel Chanas in New York.
So that was a totally different direction for us because we hadn't really been looking at the American market. But we decided that we wanted to try and expand over there and that really worked well for us. And the reason that came about is because Laura Wills from the Fashion Book blog was friendly with Arielle and we had gifted her from the collaboration together. So we'd got talking together through that. So that's how that happened. And then Needle and Thread, which is again, an amazing brand. And because we were friends with the founder who's. She's absolutely lovely.
She's one of the most loveliest people in the industry. And so again, it was like working with a friend because we all really enjoyed, I mean, the clothes and the jewellery went so fabulously together as well. And then Daphne Arles, which is American, but for me, like, I love Daphne. Cause she's. I'm really into food, she's really into food. So I was following her anyway. She was wearing, she'd been wearing our jewellery. So I reached out and then it again, it happened naturally through that.
And I love like the vibe that she gives us. She's so confident and positive and all, all of these women and the brand as well, Edenfeld, they're all brands and women that we ourselves love. So I think it works well. It's not forced.
Verity Hurd:
I mean, that's lovely. I mean, there's elements of advocacy in there already that you just started mentioning about how, you know, it's through that person talking to that person and stuff like. Yeah. And I suppose first of all, before I move on, I want. How has that kind of helped support you kind of breaking into the US market?
Francesca Kelly:
It did help. It really helped massively because you have an influx of. Of. I mean, Ariel's got a massive following and she's very influential. So for us it was brilliant because we had a lot of new customers and a lot of new traffic to the site that probably wouldn't have found out about us before. So that's helped. Fab. I mean, when something like that happens, you just have to really make sure that you are, you know, you're pleasing the customer that probably doesn't know much about you.
So you're over exceeding their expectations, I would say, in that moment. And. And that's how it goes from there, really runs from there.
Verity Hurd:
Have you been over to America yet?
Francesca Kelly:
We haven't. We haven't. You know, both times we've thought about doing. We could, because we could have done events with either. And I actually would have loved to have done an event with Daphne, which has been our latest collaboration, but it's just. We just haven't. Haven't got there to get over there. I know, I know, I know.
It's children. It's juggling, you know, it's. It's. It's leaving the work behind. It's trying to fit it all in. So, yeah, yeah.
Verity Hurd:
So with the. With these creators, they've obviously got really strong brand presences themselves. How do you ensure, like, the collaborations feel like, you know, sort of like a seamless extension from your brand to theirs? Because they've got clear identities. You guys have got clear identities.
Francesca Kelly:
Yeah. Well, again, I mean, it's literally, if I resonate with their values, their identities, I just feel that it just. That's what I basically. If I look at something, I just think to myself, does this person light me up? Do I feel excited to work with them? If it's a yes, and I feel inspired by them, I'm. I'm happy with what I can see that they're portraying on their pages. Then it's a yes. Yeah. And I think it works well because I'm always staying true.
Me and my sister, we're always staying true to ourselves. So I think that it shows that it's genuine, then. Yeah. And it kind of. Yeah.
Verity Hurd:
I mean, just give me a little glimpse into sort of, like, the partnerships and how it works, like, you know, over how long. And what does that kind of like day to day look like with the creators?
Francesca Kelly:
Well, again, we play it by ear. So if we really enjoying working together, if we want, you know, as well, we get feedback from the customers along the way. So with the collaboration that we just did with Daphne, we didn't meet her, but we've been able to talk on Zoom pretty easy. So we can talk whenever we want on Zoom really easily. She'll put together mood boards of things that she'll love. We'll show her samples that we're working on. She'll ask how she wants to tweak them. You know, we'll go back and forth that way.
And then she will organically naturally be wearing the jewellery. Anyway, we will decide on a launch date together and there will be a buzz around the launch, but after that, we're still organically wearing it. And Then, you know, like, for instance, with Daphne ours, we had a lot of customers saying they absolutely loved the collection, but a lot of the pieces were too expensive for them. They wanted some lower price points. So we've, you know, we worked really quickly and a few months later we've, We've now added to the collect and we've got like a second drop with some more accessible price points in there. So.
Verity Hurd:
Yeah. What do you think's been like one of the biggest unexpected challenges working with creators?
Francesca Kelly:
I mean, if somebody's really high profile and they have a negative spin news story or they have something happening in their life where they then come off socials for a while, which has. It kind of has happened around launch and then they had to come off socials we've had. I mean, it's just one of those. It's just one of those things. And at this point we're all kind of quite friendly as well, so we just accept it for what it is. We'll continue to promote as best as we can and we just wait until they're ready again because we understand that, you know, things like this, this happen. But yeah, those things can happen.
Verity Hurd:
Yeah. And also, I suppose, like, I don't know whether you have, like, agreements with them, but when, when I had my social media agenc, we had collaborations. You cannot always guarantee that it's going to happen. Even when they've been. It's a. It's their jewellery, their pieces, as well as. Yes, as well as the brand.
Francesca Kelly:
Yeah. So for our first collaboration, which lasted four years and we did five collections, we had no contracts, we had nothing. We're very, we're cowboys. We're not very corporate at all. And I know a lot of people will be so shocked and they'll be like, what? No, we are. I know, I know it sounds crazy, but we do, we do go on trust and friendships and word, like that's how we work. And then since then we have had some contracts with other people and, you know, it has been a bit more corporate in some instances and then we'll know what we prefer and what we don't as well. So.
Yeah, it doesn't. If it's in the contract, it's going to happen, it's going to be done. But I kind of feel like when things are set in stone and they're in the contract, like there's going to be this amount of posts, there's going to be this amount of stories, I don't actually feel that's what you get, like that's that's not what the love and the joy and the sales and that success comes from. The success comes from the fact that you can see that this person who's designed this collection loves the collection that they've designed and they're passionate about it and they're wearing it anyway and we're wearing it too. So.
Verity Hurd:
Yeah, because you would think like you wouldn't need it because they would just want to talk about it all the time.
Francesca Kelly:
Exactly, exactly. Yeah. Yeah. And I think that's, that's what we, we prefer because it's a, it's a, it's a project of love then, you know, rather than contracts.
Verity Hurd:
You briefly touched on it just a second ago because I wanted to ask about once a collaboration has launched, keeping that energy after the, keeping the buzz I suppose alive after the launch, are there any like, how do you, how do you keep it going? I know you mentioned obviously there's, it's not. Most of it is organic but are there any particular kind of activations or activities that you do to kind of keep it going?
Francesca Kelly:
Well, I mean we don't plan for anything but if I'm feeling it like I might, I might be feeling it and I might go well let's do a quick giveaway or. I do like to talk to the customers a lot and I like to get feedback on what like, like I say with the Daphne Rs we decide we got some feedback there and we, we added some more bit sims. I love that it. I'm. We are just generally wearing. If we, you know, if we're loving it then we're going to be wearing it. So you'll see it interspersed across socials because we'll probably just naturally be wearing it all the time. But there isn't anything I specifically plan.
But you're gonna know if we love it because it's just going to be there. It's just going to be in your face and like I said, I do love to talk to the customers about it. I might, you know, put a few polls on stories just to get a bit of a feedback things like yeah.
Verity Hurd:
It'S so super easy but something that I think a lot of brands and you know, sort of, you know, people within the brands forget to do and you know the polls is just, it's there for a reason and you know, we talk a lot, we say it, you know, probably on every episode about creating this two way dialogue and I suppose and also we're seeing the shift in how brands are working with creators and you've been doing it since, you know, almost day one. Like bringing them in, bringing them into the fold and creating products together and then adding that next level by bringing your customers into that mix as well. It's. Yeah, it's so powerful.
Francesca Kelly:
Yeah, yeah. It's really valuable, the, the tools that you've got on Instagram to be able to talk with a customer. It's. It's. Yeah, you need to use them because they're really valuable. They shape a lot of what we do. Like, even when we bring in our new collections for ourselves, there's heavy involvement from the customer. So it shapes the way that we're kind of going to go.
Verity Hurd:
Yeah. How do you think the role of creators will change?
Francesca Kelly:
So, I mean, we've never, we've never paid somebody, like just an advert, wear the jewellery. We'll pay you to wear the jewellery. We've done a lot of gifting, but I feel that if you gift, it's up to them. If they like it and they want to wear it and then it's. It's shown that, you know, they really like this to wear and it. I feel like if you pay them and it's a paid ad and then they're never going to wear it again. I just, I think it's, it's, it's absolutely. It's useless.
It's a s. So I think that now other people are. See, there's. So. It's so much of it everywhere that people aren't buying into it anymore. People are bored of it. So I think it is a lot more about what people genuinely like, what people really want. So if you have creators in every, you know, every post is just an ad, I feel like people are just.
Yeah, they're not buying into that anymore.
Verity Hurd:
Yeah, 100%. Yeah. I was just, we were just talking about it before and like, we're just consuming more and more, but we're connecting less because we're just. We're seeing it more and we want to be brought into spaces, even if it is just, you know, like a broadcast channel or getting into DMs with. With brands and having a chat. Like, we just want to come away from scrolling so much.
Francesca Kelly:
Yeah, yeah, yeah. I think everyone's getting there now.
Verity Hurd:
Yeah, yeah, on that. I want to sort of like touch on focuses for 2025 and slightly beyond what platforms or digital spaces have been the most effective for your growth. I think I know the answer, but hands down, Instagram.
Francesca Kelly:
Yeah. So we began in 2013, so it was a great time to get on Instagram. I. Before we started, sorry. I wasn't on any social media, so I never had MySpace. I didn't have Facebook. I wasn't.
Verity Hurd:
MySpace.
Francesca Kelly:
I was on nothing. Like, all my friends are on Facebook. And I was like, no, I'm not going on. I was actually very. I was like, I'm not going on. No, no, no. This is great that I'm not on. I love it.
And then I started, sorry. And we didn't have any budgets, so it was like, right, this is free. I can see that. There's this platform called Instagram. I don't know anything about it at all. There's a platform called Twitter, there's Pinterest. Just don't know anything about any of them. And there's Facebook that everyone's on, so that must be amazing.
So I'm going to set up accounts on all of them and I'm just going to try and work out how they work and just put things out there and see and just kind of learn along the way. I did a lot of Googling then on what on earth I needed to do, and Instagram just stuck. So Twitter kind of fell aside. Facebook kind of fell aside. I know, yeah. Pinterest. I did a lot of community building on Pinterest, actually.
Verity Hurd:
Interesting.
Francesca Kelly:
I met a friend who. Who then said to me, I'm going over to Instagram. You know, you need to do more on Instagram. I was like, okay. So I went over because she said, we're still friends now. She had a brand, too. We'd met on Pinterest and it's great, actually, along the way, I've made the most amazing friend friends through social media. But we, you know, I set up Instagram and it stuck.
It just stuck. I started building this community, you know, it was engaging and I fel. I. I learned how to take great pictures and we just got great engagement on there. So it worked for us. And it's. And I think we were really lucky because it was just. There wasn't too much noise on the platform then.
It was a great time as a brand to be starting out. So we really did build our entire brand, I would say, through Instagram. It was free. I learned how to do it. It took some time, but everything that happened since came from Instagram as well. So, you know, different creators that we've worked with or different stores that we've been in, it all came from Instagram.
Verity Hurd:
It's crazy, isn't it Just, you know, like you said, it's a free Platform as well. Like how. And, you know, there's so many brands that have, you know, kind of fallen into that. Whereas now it's just. It looks so different if you're, if you're starting out on Instagram.
Francesca Kelly:
Yeah, it's very different.
Verity Hurd:
It's very different. And. But it's also really interesting that you said, like, meeting that community piece on Pinterest, because you would think it would be the other way around.
Francesca Kelly:
Yeah, it's strange when I look back now, I think, oh, that was meant to be, because she kind of persuaded me to come to Instagram and I was spending a lot of time on Pinterest and I'm never on Pinterest now, so, I mean, yeah, it was, it was strange how that happened, but it must have. Well, it was just meant to be and she guided me over to Instagram and then we stayed on Instagram ever since.
Verity Hurd:
How do you, how do you see sort of Instagram evolving for you and the brand over? Because, you know, there's, it's, like we've just said, constantly changing. It's noisier than ever before and it's. That's not going to change, particularly if anything happens with TikTok. You know, we're probably going to see more and more brands that have built their brands through TikTok are going to want to come to, you know, other platforms. How, how do you feel about that? How do you think it's going to evolve?
Francesca Kelly:
Well, we've already seen it changing so much. Like, it's, it's. I'm trying to learn new ways all the time now, so I think it's going to evolve in. I think that there'll be. Well, I listen to Gary Vee a lot. I don't think you do, but I love Gary Vee. So all I've got, all I've got echoing in my mind is live shopping. Live shopping.
It's going to be live shopping. There's going to be avatar, avatar creators, this kind of world that I'm imagining. I'm trying to get ready for it because I listen to him all the time. But it's, it's, it is, it's daunting. Yeah, but it's as a, as a founder and somebody that's on Instagram, it's, it's learning new skills all the time, like learning new ways to market. Now it really isn't about how many followers you've got, whereas back then it was about how many followers you've got. Now it's about how good your content is so you really have to get. Learn extremely difficult new skills and learn how to do them if you want to, if you want to succeed on social media.
Verity Hurd:
Yeah, I mean that's a really interesting point actually that you say there about it is completely different skills and you know. So just tell us about. I'm kind of going off piece a little bit here but just tell us about the brand and how you got started because it's just you and your sister, right?
Francesca Kelly:
Yes, it's just me and my sister and we started in 2013. We started because, I mean really I'm going to be really real. It's because I had a daughter and I'd left my job as a buyer and I knew that when she was going to, when she was going to be going to school, she was two at the time. When she was going to school I'd need to get another job and if I went back into buying I probably wasn't going to be there for her very much because it's full on and that was the experience that I had. That's the industry I knew and I did, I did love it and I did, I did miss it but I knew I needed to get a job and I didn't really want to be leaving my daughter, not being there for her. So I kind of said to my sister, come on, she's got young children too. She wasn't working. I said would you like to do.
We'll do this together. And so that's how it came about. I used to be a jewellery buyer for Claire's Accessories. So jewellery kind of came naturally to me. We were starting off as a bridal company mainly. We were starting off with totally different, different look of different things. I thought there was a gap in the market there and there was a gap in the market as well for beautiful, well made jewellery between the, you know, the very expensive costume jewellery of, you know, designers and the high street jewellery and me and my sister both loved that kind of middle market. We wanted to have something that we could afford but that was still beautiful and very unique.
So we did have some of the styles that we still do now like the crystals and the gemstones but then we also had like a bridal and I thought the bridal would take off and it didn't. It was the other things that took off. So we kind of pivoted and just went with what we were selling but there was no plans. It was literally my daughter's two by the time she needs to go to school, I'm going to have to get a job. Let's see if this could be my job. And then it worked out. Worked out really well. Much better than we'd ever.
Much better than we'd ever expected. I think my sister was a little shocked. I don't think she was expecting to, like.
Verity Hurd:
But still be doing this now.
Francesca Kelly:
Yeah, yeah, just. Just for it to have taken off or to be. To be working so hard either. I think she just thought, yeah, it's like a little hobby. It's really nice. And then it was, oh, this is, this is full on. This is. And it is full on.
But we're still could be there for our children when we needed to be. And that was the most important thing.
Verity Hurd:
Yeah.
Francesca Kelly:
At the time, so.
Verity Hurd:
And because I, I asked about that because I wanted to link back to like the skills and stuff. And obviously you both doing such an incredible job considering that you've, you know, you've had to kind of like really learn this on the go. Right. Particularly, you know, with Instagram being such a key platform for you, how. Because you are the face of the brand, right?
Francesca Kelly:
Well, you say that, but I don't feel like I'm a fan. I don't feel like the face of the brand. I think that that's just happened on accident. From having no budget, from having no strategy, to going onto social media showing people the jewellery that, that you've got, it's just kind of naturally happened that way. But I don't see, I don't see it like that.
Verity Hurd:
Yeah, but I think that will be one of the, you know, it'll be part of how you've built this following and this community because people buy from people. And, you know, this is why we are seeing a bit of a shift now with like a lot of brands, you know, if it's not founder led, they'll bring someone in to be that kind of presence of a founder, if that makes sense. Because we are as consumers, we want to connect with someone. So I think that is, you know, whether you see yourself or not, it will be why? One of the reasons why, you know, they love you so much because of you and your sister.
Francesca Kelly:
Yeah, yeah. And I do find it a really like, valuable me, myself being on Instagram because then I get to talk to the customer and I get to hear what they're saying and there has been times when it's so busy and I feel like I'm not on socials enough and it's such an important part of the business and then I'm panicking, thinking, well, Maybe I need to take someone on to do socials. But, but it's just such a value. I just find it so valuable that I would never want to give it to anyone else for that reason. And like you say, things are changing now and there are a lot more founders on, you know, showing their brand and it, and it does help to show that this is, this is, this is us, this is our brand, this is what we do. I think, I mean, I'd like to share more of our story because there's a lot of story and I haven't. It's mainly been me showing the jewellery or wearing the jewellery, styling the jewellery or where I'm, am I wearing the jewellery or what are we doing? But I haven't actually shared so much of the stories. So yeah, we feel I can do, I can do that a little bit better, I think.
Verity Hurd:
Well, feel free to go for it today if you want and I will get to the end of this question. I'm sorry I keep, keep referring back to it, but I was just wondering about like you just mentioned, like the new skills, like the content now is, you know, so important and it's about shareable content. We know that, you know, Instagram's just come out with this three part series about how they rank it and, and you know, there's still an element of likes being in there, but obviously it's about the shares and will you continue to just learn all of these new skills? I know it's hard to hand over the actual, the face and you know, all of that, but in terms of the other stuff like creating more content, do you feel that can still sit with you or is there an element.
Francesca Kelly:
Of this is at the moment what I'm juggling in my mind. So half of me is like just learning, you know, you could learn it before. Just learn it. I love listening to business podcasts, I love business books. I'm happy to spend the time and learn it. But then does it, you know, certain things don't come natural to me. Talking on camera doesn't come natural to me. So it's trying to find other ways of sharing the stories or filming without necessarily talking.
And I think it's fine. It'll take me some time to find my feet and I like to experiment and try all these different things and I feel quite safe, safe on Instagram because I've been on there for so many years. It's, it feels easy for me to test and try on there. I don't get too nervous about it. So I'll just test and try all the different ways, all the different things. I mean, you know, creating hooks, thinking of certain, you know, copy and taglines and this. I used to just take beautiful pictures.
Verity Hurd:
And it worked really well.
Francesca Kelly:
Everyone loved it. And now it's like, oh, my gosh, I have to. You know, so it's totally different now. But, yes, I'm trying to do it myself, but I do have this little niggle and it's like, oh, could you work with someone to do this? Maybe you could work with someone that could help you do this. But we were a really small team and, you know, I don't know whether it's just because I'm the founder, sometimes you find it hard to. Got to be the right person, of course. And I. I think it could be really difficult to find that right person.
Verity Hurd:
Yeah, it's hard, though.
Francesca Kelly:
Yeah. It's not something that would. It doesn't come natural to me. So I could absolutely get that. So then you could work with someone else or like Gary Vee says, you can find different ways of doing it. So if you're not confident it doesn't come natural to you to speak to the camera. You're not that charismatic. But you do have something to say.
Then maybe it's a video with text over it or. But. But it's still. You've still got to be able to get. Or maybe it's your voice over a video and you're not looking at the camera. There's other ways to do it. So I want to experiment with everything. But it's still, you know, you've really got good at taglines, copy, you know, grabbing that attention.
I'm starting to use Chat GPT now. Ask. Which I never thought, I never thought I'd be. I was so against. I was like, hey, I know. No, this is awful. This is awful. I'm like, oh, actually, I can't ask.
It can give me some good ideas here, so.
Verity Hurd:
It can. Yeah, I think. Yeah, I, I know what you mean. I think you kind of feel a bit reluctant to kind of get into that world because you're worried about, I suppose, the unauthenticity of it all. But actually, you know, I, I use it every day and I think when you train it right, and, you know, it has an element of my tone of voice now. It. It can cut productivity. Like.
Yeah, no, it can cut time tasks in half.
Francesca Kelly:
Wow. Okay. So I've only ever asked questions to Chat GPT. I need to die. I need to do a deeper dive.
Verity Hurd:
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah. I want to go back to 2025. Are there any untapped markets or audiences that you're looking to kind of get into?
Francesca Kelly:
So many. There's so many, but that's what I love because there's always so many opportunities, possibilities, things that we haven't. We haven't explored yet. So we want to continue to expand into the American market, which is doing really. They're about 20, 25% of our sales now, and it's just a nice, slow, steady growth, which is the way that I like it. So that's going really well. And then there's so many social platforms that we. I mean, we should be on every single social platform and we're not.
So I want to go back to Pinterest, YouTube, and I want to start. I do want to be able to do, you know, experiment with the new. Because I do think lifestyling is going to be big, so I want to kind of try and get more accustomed to life.
Verity Hurd:
And do you think you'll focus in that on TikTok?
Francesca Kelly:
I think I could test on. I think TikTok is so great for testing because it's so casual and we haven't got a massive following and it's. It seems like it doesn't really matter so much over on TikTok, so it's great to go over there and test, but I do feel quite safe testing on. On Instagram as well. Um, but yeah, I'm gonna. We want to build. Build up our TikTok following, and we do have a possible collaboration actually on TikTok this. This coming year, which I'm really excited about.
I was just talking to my sister on the train this morning, so I'm very, very excited about that. A lady who's amazing on TikTok, amazing.
Verity Hurd:
I think that will be a really key way in for, you know, so any brand looking to kind of tap into a new platform. Because I think YouTube is going to be on the rise for a lot of brands. We had Victoria from YouTube on the show not so long ago, and she was, you know, talking about Kurt Geiger and things like that. So I think brands are going to wake up to it this year. And one of her biggest pieces of advice is to tap into the creators on the platform. So I think that's definitely going to be a way in for people, is to find, you know, the big creators on there and.
Francesca Kelly:
And then. Yeah, yeah, yeah, I agree. Yeah.
Verity Hurd:
What do you think is going to be one of the boldest risks that you take?
Francesca Kelly:
Well, we are looking at something that we never thought that we'd do, but we're looking at having a physical space, an actual store. So, I mean, this is something we'd always said, absolutely no way, it's not what we want. But for some reason this year we can't get it out of our head, so. And I do think it's. It will be. It will be, you know, it would be local to where we're based. But I think that's great because we've got such a loyal, you know, a loyal customer base there. So it'd be great to have a place where we can hold events, we can meet people.
But I'm also thinking for socials as well, because we can do live selling from the space, we can record from the space, so I think it would be so beneficial to have that store.
Verity Hurd:
I think it's a real big thing at the moment. You sort of that in real life to URL experience. And I think we're craving it a little bit. And even as consumers, customers or creators, we kind of want that storytelling piece that we can then bring online and kind of like start merging the two as, you know, sort of like building those connections as well.
Francesca Kelly:
Yeah, yeah. It would be lovely to be able to have a destination that people can come to if they want and to meet our customers face to face. And you're right, we do. I'm craving that now. So people do crave real connection.
Verity Hurd:
Yeah. Exciting.
Francesca Kelly:
I know. But also, actually, because the jewellery looks so different in real life.
Verity Hurd:
It does.
Francesca Kelly:
And it will be so amazing to finally, you know, have on display where we're in control of, rather than a store. It's our store. We're in control of how it's displayed, how it's looked. And to be able to show that off.
Verity Hurd:
Yeah, you kind of need to capture that wow moment of like, when you open it up and see it, because you're right, you're not expecting it. You kind of. You are, but you. To see it in real life is so different. And it's like, oh, my God, this is incredible. And, you know, when you first put it on and all of that stuff is. You can only capture that by being in person with someone. Really.
Francesca Kelly:
The real experience.
Verity Hurd:
Yeah, I can't wait for that. I want to go back to sort of like being the face of the brand, because I know you say you don't feel like it and I suppose if you don't feel like it, you know, you may not feel that kind of having you sort of like Balancing the personal identity with the brand. Do you feel like it's all kind of just merged into one?
Francesca Kelly:
I feel like it's just me. Yeah, it's just me. So the, I mean, the brand is me, it's my life, it's what I do every day. So I kind. Yeah, I do feel like there's, there's not much difference between personal, the brand, social. It's just, just how it is.
Verity Hurd:
Yeah. Do you feel any pressure with that though, on the flip side of it?
Francesca Kelly:
Pressure? Pressure in the sense that if I'm out and it's a per, you know, it's just, I'm just out. I'll be taking some pictures for social pressure in, in that sense. But then I kind of count that as my job. So I don't feel like, I just feel like it's, that's to be this. What. It's my job, it's what I do. I don't see any pressure. I mean you can't please everybody, but if there's a community and you know, if somebody's following us and they don't like what they're seeing, then they just don't have to follow us.
Verity Hurd:
So we mentioned sort of like more brands being female founded now. Who's inspiring you at the moment?
Francesca Kelly:
Like literally everyone inspires me. I look, there's so many, all of them, everybody out there. I always love to hear about their stories, see what they're doing. I mean there's so many amazing brands. There's Grace Beverly, there's Odd Muse Amy. There's never fully dressed founder which the Rixo, the girls from Rixo. Honestly, I would miss someone because the list can go on. I love to hear about their stories and see what they're up to and see how they're navigating it as well.
Verity Hurd:
Yeah.
Francesca Kelly:
All the changes in social media.
Verity Hurd:
I know. And actually like, you know, all those people you've just mentioned are sort of like on my list as well. I'm not a founder of a brand, but even just like how they're navigating the space and you know yourself as well, just, you know, it's just really interesting to kind of like see that journey and I think it's great, great to see so many female founded brands and then putting themselves out there as well. It's well needed.
Francesca Kelly:
Yeah, I love it.
Verity Hurd:
I want to touch on the Princess of Wales because she, you know, obviously global icon wearing your jewellery. Just one. Tell me a little bit about that moment.
Francesca Kelly:
Okay. I mean it was. Yeah, we were so it was amazing. Basically, the moment was amazing when we found out again, it happened, funnily enough, if you chase it back through Instagram, because I'd reached out to a boutique on the Kings Road that had not long opened, asked them if they'd like to see our jewellery, if we could come and meet them. We did. They took some of our jewellery into the store, but they obviously had royal connections that we didn't know about. The pieces were bought from the store through the royal connections. And then obviously, the princess decided to wear them.
She wore them for the opening of or to a museum event, and then she wore them the very next day to Wimbledon. So because she'd worn this unknown brand twice two days, the press went crazy. Who's this brand? Or are they? So we had a lot of traffic and a lot of visitors that we wouldn't have from all over the world that we wouldn't have otherwise had. And for me and my sister as well, it was. It was. Yeah, it was. I mean, there is a story behind it, because we'd been. We'd been.
We'd been in business for about two and a half, two. Between two and three years, I think, at the time. And my sister had. You know, she was packaging up all the orders each night. The kids had gone to bed. You've got the TV on, she's packing each up the orders. It's really getting a lot now. It's getting a lot.
And she wasn't expecting it to be a lot. And we'd had a little bit of an argument and we said. She was like, I don't want to do this. It's too difficult. And I was like, well, I really want to do this. You know, it's hard work. That's what it's going to be. But it's too hard.
I'm not doing it. And we kind of put the phone down on each other and we just weren't talking. And I was like, oh, no, what am I going to do? Okay, Mary doesn't want to do it anymore. It's fine. I'm going to do it anyway. And literally five minutes after we put the phone down, the store called us and said, kate, Princess has wore the earrings. And I was like, what? What? I was in shock. So I phoned my sister and she was like, what? Why are you phoning me back? What? I'm not.
And I was like, no, no. Said, kate's just wore her in. She's what? I said, is it right? It's back on. Get in. We're back on everything, we're sticking it through, we're staying and from then on in, never look back. Because that was a real, it was a real changing moment for us. We really grew a lot from that. There was the Kate effect does actually there is an effect because there was a lot of traffic from around the world.
Verity Hurd:
So that's so incredible, isn't it?
Francesca Kelly:
Yeah, it was just such, such perfect timing as well, because I didn't know, we didn't know what was going to happen from there.
Verity Hurd:
How do you think? So obviously you obviously gained a lot of new customers in that moment and obviously throughout. How, what in terms of like sustaining those customers, what do you think has been some of the most pivotal things that you guys have done to kind of keep them stuck with you throughout the years?
Francesca Kelly:
Yeah, we really ensured that we had great communication with them. So we over exceeded on the product, on the delivery, on the communication. We're a very personal brand, so. And a lot of the new customers from America and they actually really appreciate that, they really appreciate that about us and the packaging, the jewellery. So I think that when they receive, they're like, oh, wow. And we keep our customers away, I mean to this day, and it's kind of always been this way. 50% of our customers are repeat customers. So we don't put a lot of, we don't have a lot of budget and spend into gaining new customers.
We grow that slowly, sustainably and we have an amazing rate of return customers. So I think that's how we do it.
Verity Hurd:
Well, it's cheaper to retain customers than it is to gain new ones.
Francesca Kelly:
Yeah, it really is, yeah.
Verity Hurd:
And I have to ask, how do you build brand advocacy like that?
Francesca Kelly:
Really being very, very genuine, being honest, sticking to your values, your core mission, values, what you want, want to achieve. Like if I like it, if it lights me up, then we'll do it. Otherwise it's a no. Yeah, you know, we have great communication with our customers and really just making sure that everything that we do is we're happy with it. It's to our best, highest standards, you know, building reviews so that other people can see as well, spreading word of mouth growth. That's, that's it really. I think you've got to, you have to stick true to what. Because over the this amount of years, it's been quite a while and there's been times, you know, we could have done things that maybe didn't really align with us or we didn't think they were that great, but it would have been Great for marketing.
It would have been great. I think it's just staying true to.
Verity Hurd:
What you really want.
Francesca Kelly:
Yeah.
Verity Hurd:
Number one. Yeah, yeah. Of the whole kind of, like, principle of brand advocacy, you've got to know what you stand for and, and stick with it. And I think that's what keeps your reputation.
Francesca Kelly:
Yeah.
Verity Hurd:
And without your reputation, because that's what people say about you once you've left the room, isn't it? Like, you know the values and that's what they remember you for. And. And it can be so, like, you can lose it quite quickly if you don't stick to it. And it just takes so much time to build. So once you've got it, you've got to stick with it.
Francesca Kelly:
I don't want to. You know, it's important to be. To feel people can trust you. Trust your brand. You're trustworthy.
Verity Hurd:
Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. And Francesca, where can people find you?
Francesca Kelly:
We are Orry jewellery at Instagram. That's. That's. You can. That's where I am. So if you want to message me DM, it's me that's on there. And also we're on TikTok as well. We're just.
I'm just starting out on TikTok, but.
Verity Hurd:
It will still be you.
Francesca Kelly:
It's still me. It's still me.
Verity Hurd:
Thank you so much.
Francesca Kelly:
Thank you.
Paul Archer:
That was another episode of Building Brand Advocacy, the world's top brand building podcast. To find out more about Building Brand Advocacy and how this podcast is part of a bigger plan for our brand building cookbook. Then make sure to search for Building Brand Advocacy in Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Google Podcasts or anywhere else that podcasts are fine. And make sure that you click subscribe so you don't miss any future episodes.
Thanks to Duel for sponsoring. To find out more, go to www.duel.tech. That's D U E L . T E C H. And on behalf of the team here at Building Brand Advocacy, thanks for listening.
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