Miranda Shanahan [00:00:00]:
Social media is about personalities. Ultimately, you need to have personalities that are bringing your brand to life and living your brand and that building that emotional connection with your audience. So either you're a founder led business and you are a founder that's willing to get on camera and do that and so you can do it that way, or you're working with creators who can do that for you. But there has to be some kind of person that people can connect to.
Paul Archer [00:00:32]:
Have you ever wondered why some brands grow exponentially, building legions of passionate fans that live and die by their logos and some, well don't. I do all the time, and that's probably because I'm a massive brand nerd. But I believe there's a secret sauce at the core of every remarkable brand. A formula that sparks the growth of passionate communities, of superfans, building a business and a reputation that will last for years to come. My name is Paul Archer and I'm a specialist in brand advocacy and word of mouth, having consulted for hundreds of brands on a topic.
Verity Hurd [00:01:06]:
Hey, it's Verity here, your co host of the Building Brand Advocacy podcast.
Paul Archer [00:01:10]:
In this podcast we tap into the greatest marketing minds in the world. They share the exact tactics and strategies used to build the world's greatest brands, dropping actionable insights every brand builder can apply.
Verity Hurd [00:01:22]:
We've got some incredible guests coming up, sharing insights and tips that can truly shift the marketing landscape. If you want to be the first to hear, make sure you hit that follow button. The more people following the show, the bigger and better we can make it. So if you're loving what you hear, don't forget to follow and spread the word. Thanks again for listening. It really means a lot. I hope you enjoy this next episode.
Paul Archer [00:01:45]:
It's time to learn and Build Brand Advocacy.
Verity Hurd [00:01:48]:
Hello and welcome to Building Brand Advocacy. I am so excited today to welcome Miranda, brand consultant and content creator. Working with brands creators and founders, Miranda does brand social and content strategy plus a whole lot more. And we will definitely talk about her TikTok at some point in this episode because it is just a fountain of knowledge and expertise. So welcome Miranda.
Miranda Shanahan [00:02:12]:
Thank you so much, Verity. Really excited to be here. I am.
Verity Hurd [00:02:15]:
Like I just said like your TikTok. I mean at the moment you're doing like a seven part series on Brand world which is super fascinating. So yeah, I'd love to love to talk about that at some point in this episode.
Miranda Shanahan [00:02:27]:
Yeah, sure. It's funny. TikTok is. It's amazing how many different people that you can connect with through TikTok. Like all around the world. And since I've started creating content on there, it's been so great. And this brand world series seems to be really resonating with people in particular. I think it just showcases the best of brand creativity in a way and it's just really inspiring for people particularly who are at the beginning of building brand, their own brands.
Verity Hurd [00:02:54]:
On that note, I wanted to talk about short form because obviously that's huge on TikTok and well across most platforms now. And I think, yeah, what I wanted to ask was for brands that are seeing short form as suppose just like another marketing channel versus the ones that are actually turning it into an experience that people really want to actively engage in. What is the difference between those two and how do they do that?
Miranda Shanahan [00:03:22]:
I think it really starts with their mindset and, and perspective on what short form is all about. I think they understand that their competitive landscape for attention is they're not just competing against their traditional competitors or even other brands, they're competing against people's favourite creators, their favourite meme accounts, their favourite. Like they also have a second screen up where they're watching Netflix or they're streaming YouTube and you have to compete for attention at that level. You can't just compete for attention against the other brand that has a similar product suite to you.
So it's really understanding that you have to be extremely entertaining or you have to deliver a lot of value. So maybe you're making people laugh, maybe you're inspiring them or maybe you're telling them things that they haven't heard before or you're giving them really practical frameworks that don't just pop up on the first page of Google. So I think it's really that perspective shift about kind of like the landscape of attention and having that lens when you're creating content rather than thinking, how can we promote this product or how can we talk about our brand, how can we talk about our product, but thinking, okay, how can we get people's attention and how can we either do that through delivering entertainment or value.
Verity Hurd [00:04:35]:
Super interesting point actually because I think we forget about how many screens that we have on like, and I know obviously like Gen Z, but I think about my kids who are like Gen gen Alpha and like, yeah, they've got, they've got the TV on. I probably shouldn't admit this, but they've got the TV on, they've got a switch and then they've got a phone. Like, you know, and it's just, it's scary to think actually that that is how they are actively engaging with all the, all that stuff happening around them. So, yeah, it's really interesting point about how to capture that attention.
Miranda Shanahan [00:05:07]:
And if you think about how you scroll social media just when you're slobbing on the TV after work and you're exhausted, you know, like the videos that resonate with you, the ones that you're sharing to your friends, that's really. I think people just forget about how they consume content as well and the type of things that they enjoy and that make them laugh and that they love consuming. Because, I mean, social media is just another form of escapism and so brands have to really understand that.
Verity Hurd [00:05:37]:
Yeah, yeah, definitely. Again, love that point about brands having like sort of taking a step back and thinking about how we are actually consuming content. I always say, like brands, when they do these videos, features, when they create new updates and all of this stuff, it's not just because they're trying to like throw off social media teams, it's because it's directly in response to consumer behaviour and it's, you know, it's, it's exactly what we're doing on these platforms. So they're reacting to it. And yeah, I think a lot of brands forget that sometimes.
Miranda Shanahan [00:06:03]:
Yeah, I mean, you know, people will say, oh, the algorithm, like understanding the algorithm, but the algorithm is just trying to find content that is engaging the most amount of people and getting. Keeping the most amount of people on the platform for longer so that they serve them all ads. So it's not as kind of mysterious and magical or mythical as some people make it out. It really just is about what is grabbing people's attention and keeping it.
Verity Hurd [00:06:28]:
Yeah, exactly. Okay, so we see a lot of, like, you, I mean, obviously you break down what is happening in the industry. You break down a lot of what brands are doing on TikTok and it's fab. And we see a lot of like, sort of like Disruptor and challenger brands sort of like really kind of stealing the show on TikTok and you know, Instagram as well. While I think some of the legacy brands, some of them struggle to adapt to what's happening. What do you think is like one outdated belief that's holding these established brands back?
Miranda Shanahan [00:06:56]:
I think one of the biggest challenges is that brands are so they really want to maintain this control over the brand associations that they've worked so hard to build, whether that's, you know, some sort of premium or luxury positioning or trust or whatever, depending on the category that they sit within. And I think it's, then this desire for control over those associations, which means that they're showing up on socials in the wrong way because it really is about letting go of that control and also understanding that multiple things can be true at once.
Just because you're a brand that's all about trust doesn't mean that you can't have a personality. It doesn't mean that you can't be entertaining or fun or tap into kind of cultural moments. But I think that brands have this really kind of one dimensional approach about how they want to, how they want to be perceived and then, yeah, maintaining that really rigid control. But you see brands like Loewe who are so good at social and they understand that yes, they're a luxury brand, but that doesn't mean that they have to show up in a traditionally luxury way on social media. They can also have a lot more fun with it. They can kind of like loosen up those brand codes and show a lot more personality, tap into cultural moments and be more unexpected and playful.
I think that's really what's holding a lot of the more legacy brands back.
Verity Hurd [00:08:15]:
Yeah, great example of a brand that's doing it so well as well. Love, love what they're doing. And actually I think there's quite a few luxury brands that are, you know, sort of standing out as well. But on that note, like you mentioned, sort of like cultural moments and how brands are sort of like tapping into that. I'm going to tie this into sort of going viral and I don't really like that terminology but you know, it's a common mistake that a lot of brands sort of like try and do. Like they, you know, they want to go viral.
And there's so many memes about, you know, bosses saying to their social media teams, make this go viral. And something that I've been talking about a lot this year is that going viral is going to look a lot different because it is about tapping more into those cultural moments.
Like how, how do they kind of like, you know, obviously not how do they go viral, but apart from sort of like cultural moments, what else should they focus on?
Miranda Shanahan [00:09:04]:
I think it's really about understanding how you can make your niche, your business, your kind of specific area of interest most interesting to a mass audience. Like how can you tap into those bigger cultural conversations, passion points, interest areas that are in the, the wider world that your business lives within and how can you do that in a way that feels really timely and relevant?
And I think a great example is the creator, Tanner Leatherstein. I don't know if you follow him. But when he first started creating content about leather and his really niche focus, obviously it was only interesting to people who were in that world of craftsmanship and working with leather, which is a very small audience on social media. But as soon as he shifted to doing these deconstructing designer bags and deconstructing whether they're worth it, by bringing his experience and expertise in leather and craftsmanship to making it more relevant to a bigger audience. And I think, I mean, that's a very niche example, but I think that's the lens that brands need to be thinking about going viral through.
It's not about just tapping into a trend and getting a couple of million views, it's about thinking how you can translate your value proposition or your brand associations or having some sort of distinctive visual asset like the Duolingo owl. But, you know, I mean, please, we don't, we don't need to all have those.
And I hate to bring it up as an example, but it's, it's about how you can create those associations and translate them into something that can get attention and that has mass appeal. Because that's how you can start to make going viral more meaningful, because otherwise no one's even going to remember. They might see a video that you make, but they don't remember who made it, they don't really remember anything about it. It just kind of entertained them for a minute and then it's not driving any real action or even just memorability. So, yeah, I think that's kind of the approach that brands should be taking.
Verity Hurd [00:11:13]:
Yeah, absolutely. 100% agree. Because I suppose that's, you know, it's exactly with trends. Right. You know, we, we've seen loads of like, these micro trends, you know, especially last year, but we just don't remember the brands that kind of like to part and the amount of, like, time and resources to kind of like copycat what these trends are like. It just doesn't, like you say, it just doesn't translate into, into anything meaningful. Right.
Miranda Shanahan [00:11:36]:
And I think sometimes we can get a little bit as marketers, you know, we see these trends and these viral moments and then we analyse them. So we're breaking down what they did, how they did it, how the brand has approached it. But consumers that, they're not, they're not coming from that angle. So I think sometimes that can also kind of make us get a bit lost in our own perspective.
Verity Hurd [00:12:00]:
Yeah, I mean, I don't want to, like, I, I sometimes think when I talk about that it makes me sound like, you know, I'm a bit of a killjoy because, you know, sometimes it is fun. And I think sometimes brands can do it in a way where they can, like, show a bit of personality. Like, do you. Do you think that's right? Do you think there's, you know, there's certain trends that brands like, how do they decide basically what trends they could jump on versus the ones that are like, this is just going to be a waste of time. No one's going to remember for this, obviously.
Miranda Shanahan [00:12:28]:
Does the trend make sense for your brand and what your brand's all about? I mean, there was an example last summer of a brand that jumped on the brat, the whole brat summer thing, and they're like, the least brat brand ever. I mean, I would say more the mindful demeo trend would have been a better fit. But, you know, you see that and you just think, okay, that doesn't make sense at all. And actually, in fact, what would have been more smart would have to kind of riff on the fact that they're not brat at all.
So that kind of is the next point. It's like, does it align with your brand or can you kind of riff on it in an interesting way? Can you add something new to the conversation? Can you kind of remix a trend because it fits with your brand in some sort of funny or unexpected way? Potentially, I agree. I think trends jumping on trends definitely can play a role. I think I just would never build a whole strategy around it.
But if you want to be reactive to something that you see and you think that we've got something to say, that we can add something to the conversation. Because to your point, you know, you see these couple of breakthrough brand viral moments where they've jumped on trends, but for every one of those, there's thousands and thousands and thousands that have just flopped. So I think it's not a guarantee.
And the best way to think about it is how can you remix it or do something interesting because you've got the familiarity and the context of the trend. So you've immediately caught people's attention, but then you're sustaining people's attention by kind of subverting their expectations. I think Currys are really great with that, and I think they can be really good at remixing trends. I saw they did that kind of the Gen Z wrote the marketing script, and they did one about. They remixed it with like, the millennial manager wrote the marketing script or something like using, I know, saying things like cool beans or things like that.
And, you know, it's like you're taking an existing trend and you're riffing on it in a different way. So, yeah, it's about just being a bit more original, thinking a bit more creatively.
Verity Hurd [00:14:30]:
Yeah, no, love that. I want to go back to sort of, like, the short form. Like, let's. I want to go a bit tactical and, like, obviously, as a content creator as well, Miranda, you know, we know that short form isn't just about attention. It's about sort of, like, getting people to sort of, like, keep coming back to us and keep watching our content. What do you think is, like, the secret to get people to keep watching until that last second?
Miranda Shanahan [00:14:56]:
Well, from a kind of tactical level, I think it's really about understanding hooks and how they work. And I think people kind of think of the hook as the intro and the first thing that you say and the framing of the video. But you always have maybe three hooks in the start of your video. Your visual, your verbal, your text hook, even your caption can be a hook. And then it's about thinking how you structure that video around mini hooks throughout the piece of content. So I speak to a lot of founders and a lot of content creators, and they get very disheartened when their content doesn't perform because they think it means that their content is inherently bad. But actually, they're just. They've got interesting things to say and interesting ideas, but they're just not packaging it up in the right way for short form.
Verity Hurd [00:15:45]:
Yeah.
Miranda Shanahan [00:15:45]:
And they're not thinking about how they, you know, get people's attention at the beginning and how they layer those hooks, but then how they sustain it throughout. So thinking about structuring your points around kind of mini hooks, thinking about visual hooks that you can use throughout the. Throughout the video. And thinking about. I mean, visuals is a really interesting one. Adding moments of visual interest, changing something about the video every couple of seconds to give people multiple reasons to engage, kind of multiple focal points. So, yeah, really taking time to refine those scripts and not just thinking about that initial hook point, but how you layer them throughout the video.
Verity Hurd [00:16:22]:
Really love that. Especially sort of like thinking about the visual, like, switching up the visuals, like, every few seconds. I think that's probably. I think we're just all. We're just also focused on that initial three. That first three seconds. Right. That hook, as you say, and then forget about the rest.
Miranda Shanahan [00:16:38]:
I know. And this, I mean, you know, it's so subtle. It can be small movement, even kind of pointing, like talking with your Hands, that sort of thing. These are all visual hooks, you know, kind of moving closer and further away at a really simple level if you're doing a talking head video. So it's, it's, it also doesn't need to be really complicated, but it's, it's kind of the subtleties of the video and thinking about the nuances.
And also, I mean, I often like to think about videos as having, I mean, it depends what type of video you're making, but there's kind of like an A plot and a B plot and it's like the main message that you want to tell and then it's the little interesting nuggets that you weave in throughout that kind of give people more reasons to care or to be engaged. So maybe you're referencing something from culture, maybe it's a little personal anecdote. I mean, this is, I'm really kind of talking about it from a knowledge creator point of view here, but I think it applies to lots of different types of videos.
You know, it's paying attention to those subtle minor details because they are really the, the details that keep attention, I think.
Verity Hurd [00:17:43]:
Yeah. You mentioned sort of like you speak to a lot of founders. Are you finding that, you know, we're seeing a lot more founder led content now and we, you know, we both know that founder content is probably more impactful than anything that the brand can do itself to it to a certain extent. Like, are you finding more and more founders are trying to like get out there and you know, sort of put themselves out there as like a creator?
Miranda Shanahan [00:18:08]:
Yes, definitely. And I think it's getting harder and harder to make that work because everyone is doing it. So. And I think that people, people are told to document the journey, show the behind the scenes, show people what's going on. But there has to be something more going on than that. It's, it's not just enough to do that. And I think that's where I think a lot of people start and then fail because they think I'm doing what I'm, I'm doing what I've been told and it's not working. But again, they're not thinking about how they're, what's in it for their audience.
You know, are they doing in a really entertaining way like Midday Squares who kind of show the behind the scenes in and they've kind of made it like Keeping up with the Kardashians. It's like reality TV show style content. Or are you really educating people about what it takes to build a business in that field, are you sharing really valuable insights or do you have a really interesting storytelling hook that is something maybe aspirational or really interesting to people? Like good girl snacks. You know, they've. Their whole storytelling hook is around two girls in their 20s who quit their job to start a pickle company and they're best friends. And it's. There's so many elements of that. It's like they're best friends.
It's a pickle company. How random. And they're in their early 20s, they're figuring it out along the way and it's really, you know, it's inspirational to people. People think, oh, I'd love to do that with my best mate. So it kind of hooks them in and there has to be something like that.
Verity Hurd [00:19:36]:
Yeah, they're going to have a good year. Because obviously Pinterest predicts one of their predictions is pickles.
Miranda Shanahan [00:19:41]:
Right.
Verity Hurd [00:19:42]:
So they've got loads of stuff they can jump on.
Miranda Shanahan [00:19:46]:
Yeah. I mean, who came first? Give girl snacks or the Pinterest predicts trend? That's the question.
Verity Hurd [00:19:52]:
Actually. It made me think, then when you were talking, made me think of the new brand. Is it salt? Have I got that right?
Miranda Shanahan [00:19:58]:
Yes.
Verity Hurd [00:19:58]:
And they're two founders and I think, oh, my God, yes. If you're starting a brand today, that is exactly what you need to be doing. Like, because they're doing so, like, they're bringing the audience in on so many different levels.
Miranda Shanahan [00:20:10]:
But again, what. The reason why that's working is because they're doing it through an entertainment lens. So, you know, they've got this episode one of building their business and they're both in suits, standing in front of a whiteboard and it, I mean, it works. That approach works definitely better when you've got two founders because you can kind of bounce off each other. But then they're going and they're doing taste tests with baristas and they're doing it with a, like the GoPro on their forehead and things like that. So they're making it entertaining so that people care about it. If they were just saying, oh, this is us doing xyz, you know, people might be interested, but it's going to be a smaller group of people.
Verity Hurd [00:20:48]:
Yeah. And now I was going to ask you, like, what is the difference between short form storytelling that converts over the content that just entertains, but is it that. That actually converts that entertainment?
Miranda Shanahan [00:20:58]:
As I said, it's kind of either are you entertaining? And that could be you're making them laugh, you're inspiring them in Some way there's something about it or you're giving them value that is genuinely worth sharing. And I think that, that every single video has to deliver on, on one of those qualities, otherwise it's just not going to perform. So I think there's not really a clear cut difference now. I think if you want to convert people, you have to be doing one of those two things.
Verity Hurd [00:21:27]:
Yeah. And like, why, why, how, how do brands keep the momentum going? Because it's, it's hard work. Right. You'll know as a content creator, like, it's. Yeah, I mean, I struggle just to do Instagram like here and there. Like it's. Because it's just, it's so full on. Like, how do brands, like, how do creators, like, make sure that that momentum just doesn't die off?
Miranda Shanahan [00:21:49]:
I think it. Nailing a couple of formats that are repeatable and scalable and that, you know, work for your audience. And obviously that takes experimentation to get there. But then once you've got, say, two formats that work for you, you have a framework within which you're creating content. And it makes it so much easier, it makes it so much more focused when you're ideating and you know, you have your way of editing, your way of doing things that streamlines that whole process.
And then to make sure that you, I mean, it's dedicating, say 80% of your time to churning out those formats that you've already proven and then spending the other 10% of time where you're being creative, you're ideating, you're testing new things because, you know, it's likely that you will come reach to a point where a format maybe stops performing. And I think, you know, brands need to, I mean, not every format will have a lifespan, but most of them do. And to keep people engaged and interested, you need to be having that experimentation piece as well, where you're trying new things, but you're not trying new things all the time because that's when you're going to just be sucked dry of all your energy.
And that's where the formats really help, I think.
Verity Hurd [00:23:02]:
Yeah, good point. Especially about something that's repeatable and scalable. I think maybe that's why brands find that because I think the niche thing is really important as well. Like obviously you mentioned the content creator around like leather and you know, like, I always think about the guy that, you know, just had cucumbers, like, you know, and it feels so small and like, you know. Yeah, I suppose just a small part of like not capturing a Big audience, but actually the niche you are, like sometimes the bigger audiences you can pull in. And I think, well, I don't know, like, do you think that's why brands struggle with that, finding those formats because they just can't niche down enough?
Miranda Shanahan [00:23:42]:
I think it's like brands are not thinking a bit more expansively about the worlds that they could tap into in content. So two examples that I think are great are Loft Juice, which is a canned cocktail brand and they have their dating show on the street where they, they stop people in the street and they try to set them up. And it's great because it just requires, I mean one of the founders is a presenter, so he's the host, but they're in the show. It's low lift. It's, it's not, you know, there's not a lot of production that needs to go into content like that.
Verity Hurd [00:24:14]:
Yeah.
Miranda Shanahan [00:24:14]:
And you can do it time and time again. And it works really well on socials because I mean it's a dating show, familiar format and everyone, it's kind of got inbuilt awkwardness and kind of stakes and drama and tension because you're setting people up, it's funny and then, and you know, their whole, their brand is around socialising and connection and it makes sense for them to then tap into the dating world.
And Immi Ramen, which is a ramen brand in the us they have Immi on the street, their interview series where they interview people about kind of life and love and happiness and all that. And because that their brand is about ramen that makes you feel good. So it's this feel good content that they're bringing people into their world with. And I think it's like thinking a bit more expansively about the, maybe the emotional territories that your brand is tapping into, all the kind of broader conversations and figuring out how you can create content around that.
Verity Hurd [00:25:11]:
Yeah. Okay, so we've mentioned a few, well, we've mentioned Duolingo already and I think, you know, there's, there's other ones that are standing out at the moment, but in terms of like some of the other brands that are really killing it right now, maybe particularly in like the short form storytelling piece. Who's out there for you?
Miranda Shanahan [00:25:28]:
So there's lots of brands in the fashion space that are doing lots of interesting things. I think Mela and Gant and there's a few other fashion brands that are really going big on this TV social show style content and they're kind of each of their campaigns, each new season is kind of its own mini TV show. They have a set of characters and they're creating this more storytelling kind of mini TV show. Content that keeps people coming back and kind of gives people a reason to tune in. And I've seen a few brands using this approach. Rescue Remedy did a TV series that was like a kind of cartoon and they were dropping it at the same time each week and people were tuning in to come back and watch the show. And I think that's something that we're going to see a lot more of, especially as brands increasingly realise that they're competing against, you know, net, Netflix and YouTube and these other kind of streaming platforms for attention and they're going to be developing these little social shows that live on Instagram or TikTok.
Verity Hurd [00:26:36]:
Yeah, love that idea. Do you think that's going to be a huge kind of like content trend this year?
Miranda Shanahan [00:26:41]:
Yeah, absolutely. I think we've already, we're already seeing it. I mean the Ritz Carlton have done it, the brands that I've already mentioned. And I think this is to your point about founder led content being really resonant, working really well. I think this is where bigger brands have the potential to win because they have the production budget, they can invest in this sort of content which is obviously requires a lot more money and a lot more time to create. But that's really where I would be thinking about investing budget if I was a bigger brand.
Verity Hurd [00:27:14]:
Yeah. And then I just want to touch on sort of like obviously I've just mentioned they're like a trend. What do you think is going to be some of the other sort of like brand shifts in 2025.
Miranda Shanahan [00:27:24]:
So I definitely think this TV shows is a big one. I think we're going to see brands working with creators in different ways. Something that we've already started seeing is this idea of kind of creators in residences, people, brands hiring creators to be the face of their brand. Like Olipop and Set Active hired a creator who is the face of their brand for a while.
And I think having this one recurring personality who can kind of really kind of host brand experience on socials, it's going to be something we're going to see a lot more of. And then also in this social shows, what we've seen, I mean Mela, they're working with creators in a different way. They're kind of recruiting creators as the main protagonist in these shows and then writing these storylines around around them and hiring other people to kind of be the supporting cast. So I think we're going to See a real shift towards brands using creators in a more interesting way.
I mean on creators as well, using more unexpected creators. I mean, we saw Jacques Mousse working with Busanti to announce the launch of their London, their London shop. I think bringing in creators that are really resonating with their target audience but that have no, you know, connection to say fashion. But they are, you know, they've got a huge audience, they're really culturally relevant. So yeah, I think we're going to see a more interesting and creative approach to working with creators.
Verity Hurd [00:28:56]:
Yeah, 100% agree. I think it's really great as well now and fascinating to see how brands are sort of like relinquishing that control and letting these creatives and that like, you know, their brand story now. Because I think for a long time they've been so like, we can't let anyone else do this for us. It's got to, you know, it's always been like, felt like a bit of a controlled thing, whereas I think now, yeah, I think it's going to be fun to see how brands do it this year.
Miranda Shanahan [00:29:22]:
I think brands have to give over. Social media is about personalities ultimately. So you need to have personalities that are bringing your brand to life and living your brand and that building that emotional connection with your audience. So either you're a founder led business and you are a founder that's willing to get on camera and do that and so you can do it that way or you're working with creators who can do that for you on their own accounts or on your account. But there has to be some, some kind of person that people can connect to.
Verity Hurd [00:29:55]:
Yeah. Do you think we'll also see many brands getting it wrong this year?
Miranda Shanahan [00:30:00]:
Yes. I mean, well, first with everything, I think the, we're probably going to see brands trying to use AI influencers. I think that's pretty inevitable. And whilst, I mean, look, I think there's a big shift that could come where brands really go all in on developing that proprietary AI influencer who then becomes, you know, the face of the brand. And I think there will be a cultural mindset shift where people understand that they can develop relationships with AI, but we're not there yet and we're not going to be there anytime soon. So I think that these definitely early attempts at using AI influencers are probably going to miss the mark.
Verity Hurd [00:30:46]:
Yeah, yeah, they just, yeah, they just haven't quite landed right just yet, have they?
Miranda Shanahan [00:30:50]:
No. And I mean, yeah, with that futurist lens, I think the way that we work with AI that we communicate with AI is obviously going to undergo an enormous shift, but that's really looking to the future.
Verity Hurd [00:31:04]:
So yeah, Miranda, you obviously work with a lot of like brands and founders, as you've mentioned, and obviously creators, you, you creator yourself. What is your. I want to dig into your kind of like your go to framework for like turning a brand's core message into content that people actually want to watch.
Miranda Shanahan [00:31:23]:
Yeah. So I think it's about identifying those bigger kind of conversations or emotional territories that you can create content around, trying to nail down a couple of formats that can become signature formats and that make content more scalable. Figuring out what your distinctive content style is. So thinking about how you can translate your brand codes into something, into kind of signature assets.
So whether that's, you know, maybe you do more cinematic style content, maybe it's a certain editing style, maybe it's a certain background that you always use. You kind of have a set that you film content in, but really trying to create a cohesive and recognisable image for yourself on social media, I think that's a great way to start to cut through and then, yeah, the formats that are kind of these things that people come to know you for and then turning those into a series, I think, I mean something that we touched on earlier was how to keep people coming back. And a series is just one of the best ways to do that.
And you know, it can be a TV show style series, but it can just be basically breaking down any kind of bigger content idea into a multi part series or kind of doing some sort of taking people, doing a challenge with people, taking people on the journey of you doing something.
I mean we saw 75 hard. I think we're going to see a lot more brands tapping into that type of challenge based content. Yeah. Where you can kind of take people along with you.
Verity Hurd [00:32:55]:
Love it. And how does that translate across the different platforms? Like obviously like do you, do you, how do you kind of like recommend that they break that down across it? For example, like we obviously we speak to a lot of brands and you know, Instagram is a huge, huge platform for a lot of them. And then obviously TikTok, I think for the new sort of like Challenger brands, like TikTok is their go to platform. Whereas obviously I think, you know, some of these legacy brands, Instagram is their bread and butter.
But you know, even YouTube shorts is, you know, sort of like coming up as a, as a platform that a lot of brands want to dig into. How do you kind of like advise them to work with like their content strategy across the different platforms at the moment because it's. It takes so much time, like we've said, and resource.
Miranda Shanahan [00:33:41]:
Yeah, I mean, it really depends on their content resources and capacity, capacity for content creation. But I think it is nice to use TikTok and Instagram as giving two different perspectives on the business. It's very simplified to say, oh, use TikTok for behind the scenes and found LED content and then Instagram for kind of more storytelling content, more visually interesting content. But, you know, it does. It is a nice split to think of it that way and a lot of brands do think of it that way because it kind of also does. It just makes it easier to approach content creation if you have that kind of quite reductive split in your mind.
Verity Hurd [00:34:19]:
Yeah, awesome. And then just on the platforms themselves, like, do you think there's any sort of, like, underused feature across TikTok and Instagram right now that brands should be leveraging?
Miranda Shanahan [00:34:28]:
Yeah. So I think video replies on TikTok is a huge one. I saw this creator last week who, she'd done a video asking something like, what, what hacks did you spend money on last year that actually made a difference and it obviously got thousands and thousands and thousands of comments and she did video replies to every single comment and this video went really viral. And then she's really extending the lifespan of that viral moment by doing video replies to every single comment. And I just thought that's so smart. And that's exactly what every brand should be doing, you know, if they have a video that gets good traction on TikTok than doing video replies. Because that's how you're really going to kind of maximise that viral moment.
Verity Hurd [00:35:13]:
Yeah, that's clever.
Miranda Shanahan [00:35:15]:
Yeah. And then on Instagram, I think trial reels is such an interesting one for reaching new audiences. I think working with brands and creators who are taking their best performing videos and then they're posting them as trial reels to then get new eyes on them and kind of reach new audiences. They already know that that piece of content works, but it was mostly shown to their existing followers. So as a way to get new followers. I think that's definitely something that more brands should be playing around with now.
Verity Hurd [00:35:44]:
Yeah, love it. Where do you think like LinkedIn falls into. Falls into this space right now?
Miranda Shanahan [00:35:49]:
Yes. LinkedIn is a funny one. I think LinkedIn video is. There's not really a kind of LinkedIn style or kind of a LinkedIn specific strategy, it seems at the moment, you know, it's quite clear what content, video content performs best on TikTok versus Instagram. LinkedIn seems to be a kind of having a slight identity crisis on the video front. I don't know. I'm not convinced that People are on LinkedIn to consume video content. I think more People are on LinkedIn on, on their laptops because they're on it whilst they're working and checking emails sort of thing.
I mean, a lot of people are also consuming on the app, but I personally don't watch videos on LinkedIn. I'm sure that we're going to see the rise of some amazing LinkedIn video creators, but I just don't think we're there yet. And I don't think that any of the video content on LinkedIn is quite nailing the mark yet. But it's still such early days and there will be people who break through and start to set the mould.
Verity Hurd [00:36:55]:
Yeah, 100%. And I think something that was talked about at the start of the year was like, sort of like the platforms having a bit of a, a bit of a moment in terms of like the, the starting to merge a little bit. And I, I think LinkedIn was particularly that kind of platform where. And, and then people started complaining, going, I just want old LinkedIn back. I don't want a day in the life of like, I don't want to say, like, you've just got engaged and things like that. So, yeah, it'll be really interesting to see what the platform does, but I think you're right, it definitely is having a bit of a identity crisis.
Miranda Shanahan [00:37:30]:
Yeah. Well, you're seeing more brands kind of using LinkedIn as a marketing channel and doing, posting kind of doing campaigns on LinkedIn, which I think is. Is interesting, working with creators on LinkedIn to do campaigns and not just B2B, not just the B2B brands that you would expect to be doing that, but also B2C brands, which I think we're going to see a lot more of that this year.
Verity Hurd [00:37:50]:
Yeah. Awesome. Miranda, this has been absolutely fantastic. I've loved this conversation. Thank you so much. If brands want to, or if anyone wants to get in touch, where is the best place they can find on TikTok?
Miranda Shanahan [00:38:03]:
Miranda does brands. I'm also on Instagram and LinkedIn.
Verity Hurd [00:38:08]:
Great. We will definitely link those platforms out for you in the show notes. Thank you so much.
Miranda Shanahan [00:38:13]:
Thank you so much for having me.
Paul Archer [00:38:16]:
That was another episode of Building Brand Advocacy, the world's top brand building podcast, to find out more about Building brand advocacy and how this podcast is part of a bigger plan for our Brand Building Cookbook. Then make sure to search for Building Brand Advocacy in Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Google Podcasts, or anywhere else that podcasts are fine. And make sure that you click subscribe so you don't miss any future episodes. Thanks to Duel for sponsoring. To find out more, go to www.dual.tech, that's D U E L dot T E C H. And on behalf of the team here at Building Brand Advocacy, thanks for listening.
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