The strongest brands aren’t built through ads. They’re built through people.

Welcome to a special Advocacy 101 episode, where five expert insights are remixed into one helpful guide. The time, it’s Founders’ takes on turning creators, customers, and those in your brand network into your most powerful brand champions.

Featuring lessons from Lucy Aylen (Founder @ Never Fully Dressed), Marielle Wyse (Founder & Director @ WYSE London), Haeni Kim (Founder & Creative Director @ KITRI), Lucy Toone (Founder @ TOMM Jewellery), and Francesca Kelly (Co-Founder @ Soru Jewellery), this episode breaks down how modern brands win by putting real people at the center of their marketing.

Tune in to learn why you should…

• Make Customers Your Best Influencers: Before influencer marketing was an industry engine, Never Fully Dressed built a brand powered by everyday customers. Lucy shares why micro-influencers and engaged buyers drive more sustainable growth than big-name creators.

• Understand That Not Every Founder Should Be the Face: WYSE London’s Marielle explains why pushing a founder into the spotlight doesn’t always work – and how brands can find the right voices to represent them.

• Turn Negative Feedback Into Opportunities For Advocacy – KITRI’s Haeni reveals how handling complaints well can transform unhappy customers into loyal Advocates. Direct customer feedback always fuels better product development.

• Go For ‘An Army of Ants Over a Queen Bee’: TOMM Jewellery’s Lucy shares why working with an engaged network of smaller Advocates often outperforms investing in one big creator.

• Collaborate with Creators Who Truly Align: Francesca shares why the best partnerships start with a simple question: Does this person genuinely inspire us? Every one of Soru Jewellery’s collaborations hit this mark, or they don’t happen. 

Listen in. Take notes. Build real Advocacy.

Chapters
00:00 – The Power of Word of Mouth Marketing
02:09 – Building Brand Advocacy Through Community Engagement
04:53 – The Role of Founders in Brand Representation
07:29 – Turning Customer Feedback into Brand Advocacy
09:49 – Collaborating with Influencers: Quality Over Quantity

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Connect with Lucy, Marielle, Haeni, Lucy & Francesca:

On Lucy Aylen’s LinkedIn

On Marielle’s LinkedIn

On Haeni’s LinkedIn 

On Lucy Toone’s LinkedIn

On Francesca’s LinkedIn

Catch their full episodes: 

Lucy Aylen on Creating Word-Of-Mouth Magic

Marielle on Turning Feedback To Fan-Led Advocacy

Haeni’s Formula For Fashion Community

Lucy Toone on Unexpected Growth Strategies

Francesca on Not Losing Brand DNA

Lucy Aylen [00:00:00]:

Word of mouth is the best form of marketing you can have. It will be slower, but you just need to take that on the chin.

Marielle Wyse [00:00:05]:

You can't make somebody something they're not. You can bring out elements of a person. If you can spot elements and you can give them confidence, you can make them a little bit better.

Haeni Kim [00:00:14]:

What really kind of mattered to me and mattered to our team from the beginning is that how do we turn those people into brand advocates?

Lucy Toone [00:00:22]:

Jessica's got 2,000 followers. She genuinely loves your product and you gift her the product and she is overjoyed. That gives me more than knowing that some big time creator has thrown my box in the bin.

Francesca Kelly [00:00:35]:

I just think to myself, does this person light me up? Do I feel excited to work with them? If it's a yes, then it's a yes.

Paul Archer [00:00:53]:

Have you ever wondered why some brands grow exponentially, building legions of passionate fans that live and die by their logos and some, well, don't. I do all the time, and that's probably because I'm a massive brand nerd. But I believe there's a secret sauce at the core of every remarkable brand. A formula that sparks the growth of passionate communities, of superfans, building a business and a reputation that will last for years to come. My name is Paul Archer and I'm a specialist in brand advocacy and word of mouth, having consulted for hundreds of brands on a topic.

Verity Hurd [00:01:26]:

Hey, it's Verity here, your co host of the Building Brand Advocacy podcast.

Paul Archer [00:01:31]:

In this podcast, we tap into the greatest marketing minds in the world. They share the exact tactics and strategies used to build the world's greatest brands, dropping actionable insights every brand builder can apply.

Verity Hurd [00:01:42]:

We've got some incredible guests coming up, sharing insights and tips that can truly shift the marketing landscape. If you want to be the first to hear, make sure you hit that follow button. The more people following the show, the bigger and better we can make it. So if you're loving what you hear, don't forget to follow and spread the word. Thanks again for listening. It really means a lot. I hope you enjoy this next episode.

Paul Archer [00:02:05]:

It's time to learn and Build Brand Advocacy.

Verity Hurd [00:02:09]:

I wanted to delve into the the like never fully dressed community. And I think, you know, you guys would the OGs when it came to sort of saying like, the customers are our influencers and you know, we stand by that through this podcast, you know, we're very passionate about that ourselves, you know, making your customers the advocates and things like that, I mean, was there a strategy around that positioning?

Lucy Aylen [00:02:35]:

Not really. I suppose it's conscious when we come up as that. I think it's important to. To identify that we came to social before the word influencer was in the dictionary. I think if someone came into business and was starting a brand seven years ago, it would have been a completely different story. So when I was on first started on Instagram, you'd have Matilda, Jaderf or Josephine. They would just message being like, oh, I like that top, like I'll buy it or. Or if you were kind enough to give something for free, let alone pay someone.

That just wasn't even a concept. So that was really natural. And then it grew which probably then held me not in good stead. When that influencer came about and you're suddenly seeing fees of stuff and I'm like, what this is. This is mental. And maybe as it just started they had more credibility. Then it went out and then it was like the birth of the micro influencer and it's still going in trends of stuff. Yeah.

So probably just a bit tight and was like, I'm not paying these people. I know what I could do with three grand jumping. I could shoot and create and just have more fun with that budget and pay something. But equally you've still got to have a commercial head on and you know, if someone. But now you've got all tracking links and stuff so you can see actually if someone does really sell for you, then yeah, there's got to be an ROI in everything. But I think just making sure it comes from a genuine place that that person genuinely likes the brand. I think when you do I say those spiky thing activity or someone does stuff and they're not fussed about being there. But we've moved away even we're opening.

We've opened in LA.

Verity Hurd [00:04:07]:

Congratulations.

Lucy Aylen [00:04:09]:

Thank you. But I'm out there next weekend for like the main opening. That was a bit of a soft launch and we're doing a party. But I was really adamant on just having that as a customer party. I prefer those events so much. More like, yeah, we did something with Harvey Nicks in Manchester and the customer pieces they want to be there where influencing now is a job. People are paid, time is money. So for those people to come, it's not as genuine, I think and it's a bit like the old school marketing approach of an Avon party or like a Tupperware party.

You know, word of mouth is the best form of marketing you can have. It will be slower but you just need to take that on the chin. Obviously not if something's actually Without So things can go viral, but it tends to be a slower but a much more sustainable rate of growth.

Verity Hurd [00:04:53]:

Founder led brands are becoming more and more prominent these days. But not every founder is as natural or wants or kind of even gets the concept of how important it is to be the face of a brand or to get out there and show themselves. What would be your tips or advice for marketers that are kind of in that place where they're desperately trying to get more of their founder or, you know, other people in the business to get involved?

Marielle Wyse [00:05:19]:

Well, I think you can, I think you can't force a, what's the expression, square peg into a round hole or something. I think you've got to work a little bit with what you've got. You can't make somebody something they're not. You can bring out elements of a person. If you can spot elements and you can give them confidence, you can make them a little bit better. But I think spotting. And if it isn't that person, it could be another person. I think you have to be realistic.

You don't wanna go down, be inauthentic and make somebody do something that they don't feel comfortable in, but you might be able to spot another, another tool, another way of doing it that they feel comfortable with.

Verity Hurd [00:05:55]:

Yeah, I mean something that's really popping up at the moment is obviously employee generated content as well. And obviously you've just mentioned, you know, your, your team in the stores, would they sort of, would you consider bringing them into the online.

Marielle Wyse [00:06:10]:

You know, just as you're saying it, I'm just thinking, oh, that maybe I should go to the stores and do some content with constantly thinking of ideas 100%. You know what? K, try it. Yeah, like the chances are it probably will work because they love it. And actually what they love is when it's not quite right, you know, like a bit messy and it goes a bit wrong and there's a giggle in the corner. And the best Instagrams I've ever done is when the DHL man sort of knocks at the door halfway through and I have to go and then he wants a chat and I can't have a chat. And they're giggling away and then they converse with each other and I'm like, no, you know, anyway, quite funny.

Verity Hurd [00:06:46]:

I was just gonna ask you actually, what has been one of your most successful Instagram lives and what would you say is the biggest lesson you've learned when building such a loyal community that.

Haeni Kim [00:06:59]:

The, that the bad reviews also matter? Yeah, not necessarily like Reviews. But customer feedback is so important, and it has been from day one. There is so much noise, and there's definitely an element of, like, keyboard warriors out there and just kind of, you know, they want to be seen. And more often than not, they're all really reasonable complaints. And customers, we're not perfect, you know, so we do make mistakes. And customers, quite rightly so, feel like, you know, they, they. They need to get better service or better. So I think it's really easy to kind of dismiss that as like, oh, my God, they're just being, you know, as.

As a brand. But what really kind of mattered to me and matter to our team from the beginning is that how do we turn those people into brand advocates?

Verity Hurd [00:07:55]:

Yeah.

Haeni Kim [00:07:56]:

Not just the ones who love us already and have a really positive experience with us.

Verity Hurd [00:08:00]:

Interesting. Yeah.

Haeni Kim [00:08:01]:

But also with the people who are not happy with what they had and how do we learn from their experience and how do we make that better? And actually the people who didn't have a great experience with you from the beginning, but then actually the brand went over and beyond and helped you out and it became, I mean, they become the best brand advocate at the end because they, they'll be like, oh, my God, like, they heard and they listened and. And they do, and then they made it right.

Verity Hurd [00:08:25]:

Yeah.

Haeni Kim [00:08:26]:

And I think those are also just as important as the good ones. Our customer reps have, you know, detailed answers to most common questions and complaints that they might. They might receive, and that goes through that, that, that process. And most of the time, that's kind of where. Where people are. Oh, okay. Thank you very much for your help. You know, where's my tracking number? How do I do the returns? You know, all of those kind of, you know, very run of the mill D2C questions.

But when there are more difficult, challenging customer complaints or feedback, then they escalate. So they have a really clear route to escalation that will reach one of our team, and our team will have a slack channel for just pure customer service. So if it's a fit complaint or if it's a question about what size they should get, all of those things are actually answered by our immediate team, which is, I think, really important. And also that feedback is invaluable to our next, next product fitting or our next product design or how we communicate that online for our E. Comm team or how we shoot it for our creative team. So it's just all around just really amazing feedback. And if there is anything else, like, you know, more serious, then it Gets escalated directly to me or my husband and business partner. So then we will sit down together and go, how do we solve this? How do you make this customer feel really hard and make her feel understood and how do we make this better?

Verity Hurd [00:09:49]:

Do you kind of work with influencers on all the different scales?

Lucy Toone [00:09:53]:

Yeah, I, I, I think there's, you know, there's huge value in numbers and I always say it's better. I don't know if this is a bad thing to say. I always think that's good, sounds good, but maybe not. I, I always say an army of ants over a queen bee. You know, love that. And there's, there's so much strength. I mean, my mom was saying the other day, I think she was saying that, I think this is what she was saying, that if ants were bigger or something, if there's something about ant, if they had, there's something about them, if they had like thumbs, I don't know, I could be making that up. There's something about if an ant had something, then they would take over the world because they are such team players, they build things.

There's this team community which is unlike anything. And in my opinion, to be totally honest, is Stacey is so unique in her situation. I probably would steer quite clear from anyone else that falls near the amount of following that she has because, you know, why would they, why would they care to help? You know, they've got thousands. Especially when you're a small budget, small brand, you can't afford to work with people like that. So I just think how nice is it when you message someone? Jessica's got 2000 followers and she genuinely loves your product and you gift her the product and she is overjoyed and like that for me is again, it comes down to how do I feel about my day to day job. Well, that gives me more than knowing that some big time creator has thrown my box in the bin and not even looked at it. That's really sad. And that probably happens to a lot of people, 100%.

Verity Hurd [00:11:33]:

And I think, you know, again, you'll know. Listening to podcasts is what we talk about a lot in terms of like investing in your advocates. And they're, they're genuinely are your customers. And a lot of brands need to, you know, they kind of go, where do I find these people? And it's like, well, they're already there. Like they're in your CRM. They're the ones that are engaging with you. They might not be the ones that are spending the most, but they're the ones that engage the most because they love you and they may not be able to afford to buy you all the time, but they will keep following you and supporting you 100%. And I think it's interesting what you said around.

They're the people I want to go for a coffee with or want to go for a coffee with, because you kind of giving them the narrative of your brand. Right. And then you're giving them the control to then go on their platforms to talk about you. So I think that's really key. I mean, are there any kind of like, do you. Do you get on the phone and speak to these guys beforehand? Or is it just a case of kind of like looking through their content creators?

Lucy Toone [00:12:27]:

Yeah. I mean, FaceTimes. Yeah. Video. I mean, we haven't come to the office. We do live streams with them. It's something that we are planning to go big on for us. That's our focus for us, Growth strategy.

We're just basically gearing up to grow.

Verity Hurd [00:12:44]:

So with the. With these creators, they've obviously got really strong brand presences themselves. How do you ensure, like, the collaborations feel like, you know, sort of like a seamless extension from your brand to theirs? Because they've got clear identities. You guys have got clear identities.

Francesca Kelly [00:13:01]:

Basically. If I look at something, I just think to myself, does this person light me up? Do I feel excited to work with them? If it's a yes, and I feel inspired by them, I'm happy with what I can see that they're portraying on their pages. Then it's a yes. Yeah. And I think it works well because I'm always staying true. Me and my sister, we're always staying true to ourselves. So I think that it shows that it's genuine then. Yeah.

And it kind of. Yeah.

Verity Hurd [00:13:31]:

I mean, how. Just give me a little glimpse into sort of like the partnerships and how it works, like, you know, over how long. And what does that kind of like day to day look like with the. With the creators?

Francesca Kelly [00:13:42]:

Well, again, we play it by ear. So if we really enjoy working together, if we want, you know, as well, we get feedback from the customers along the way. So with the collaboration that we just did with Daphne, we didn't meet her, but we've been able to talk on Zoom pretty easy. So we can talk whenever we want want on Zoom really easily. She'll put together mood boards of things that she'll love. We'll show her samples that we're working on. She'll ask how she wants to tweak them. You know, we'll go back and forth that way and then she will organically naturally be wearing the jewellery.

Anyway, we will decide on a launch day together and there will be a buzz around the launch, but after that we're still organically wearing it. And then, you know, like for instance, with Daphne ours, we had a lot of customers saying they absolutely loved the collection, but a lot of the pieces were too expensive for them. They wanted some lower price points. So we've, you know, we worked really quickly and a few months later we've, we've now added to the collection. We've got like a second drop with some more accessible price points in there.

Paul Archer [00:14:50]:

That was another episode of Building Brand Advocacy, the world's top brand building podcast. To find out more about Building Brand Advocacy and how this podcast is part of a bigger plan for our Brand Building cookbook, then make sure to search for Building Brand Advocacy in Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Google Podcasts, or anywhere else that podcasts are fine. And make sure that you click subscribe so you don't miss any future episodes. Thanks to Duel for sponsoring. To find out more, go to ww.duel.tech. that's D U E L dot T E C H. And on behalf of the team here at Building Brand Advocacy, thanks for listening.